Curved Flyssa in St-Petersburg museum...Ariel, Jim, Ham...somebody please explain!!!

katana · 19th December 2006, 10:47 AM

Hi Emanuel,
the Flyssa is slightly unusual...IMHO....it fits the overall description of one. Nice sword either way. As to the curve being formed from an originally straight blade......as the sword is forged, the curve would have been formed early in the making of the sword. To form the curve on an already forged straight blade would be more trouble than its worth...I believe it would be easier to forge a new blade.

The one that caught my eye is the wavy edged Shamshir....I am wondering whether its wavy edge enhances its 'cutting abillity' when used with a 'slash' type blow.

ariel · 19th December 2006, 01:45 PM

The exhibition describes it as an "Uzbeki Shashka". Very strange. I am quite uncertain about the validity of IDs: there is a typical Qajar Revival sword with a very usual point, described as Zulfiqar

However, the ax is an Uzbeki Ay-Balta, the shamshir has a collar of turquoise on the throat of the scabbard ( you even can see a part of it in the picture showing the hilt of the "'shashka") and provenanced as the gift of the Emir of Bukhara to the Tsar, and the karud also has the same collar on the bolster.

Assuming the Uzbeki attribution is correct, we can go on a very, very long limb: is it possible that the blade is the ancestor of both Laz Bicagi (Black Sea Yataghan) and Flyssa?
I can see the proverbial fan turning my way..... Duck...

Emanuel · 19th December 2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Assuming the Uzbeki attribution is correct, we can go on a very, very long limb: is it possible that the blade is the ancestor of both Laz Bicagi (Black Sea Yataghan) and Flyssa?
I can see the proverbial fan turning my way..... Duck...

Phew, good thing you said it

Ariel. That's the little demon that got in my head when I saw this. The decorations are stylistically kabyle though, so at some point this sword was in Algeria (compare the second and last pics). That such decorations endured from uzbeks to be used by kabyles is a long limb indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

DOCTOR....quick....this man needs your help....

Heh, get me a couple of these beauties and I'll be instantly cured

Thanks for the comments,
Emanuel

ariel · 19th December 2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Phew, good thing you said it

Ariel. That's the little demon that got in my head when I saw this. The decorations are stylistically kabyle though, so at some point this sword was in Algeria (compare the second and last pics). That such decorations endured from uzbeks to be used by kabyles is a long limb indeed.

Heh, get me a couple of these beauties and I'll be instantly cured

Thanks for the comments,
Emanuel

Manolo, take a deep breath and do not get excited!

The damn BSY/Flyssa story is so incredibly complex and confusing that my trip along a very, very long limb is likely to end in a fall. Straight into something very unpleasant.
Wait until Jim reads these rantings!
He will take us to task, no doubt...

Emanuel · 19th December 2006, 04:06 PM

It's bloody obsessive isn't it?

I'm certainly calmer now that I've seen the type of inlay on it. I'm thinking it's just another variant of flyssa produced in Algeria to different specs. I just haven't seen a curved example so far, this may be the first. It makes it quite beautiful, even more graceful than the "usual" kind.

ham · 20th December 2006, 06:00 AM

Ariel, back up cautiously, mind your way-- that limb had already snapped with a mighty crunch under the weight of the St. Pete curators' description before you got (far) out on it.
Slight curvature in normally straight blades, or the reverse, need not alarm the good souls of the forum... these are simple variants which indicate the preference of the owner-- perhaps he preferred the drawcut. This particular weapon is unquestionably and entirely attributable (and as a flyssa, naught else) despite its seeming scoliosis-- no doubt imparted by the fall. Perhaps the curator landed on't.

Ham

ariel · 20th December 2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

Ariel, back up cautiously, mind your way-- that limb had already snapped with a mighty crunch under the weight of the St. Pete curators' description before you got (far) out on it.
Slight curvature in normally straight blades, or the reverse, need not alarm the good souls of the forum... these are simple variants which indicate the preference of the owner-- perhaps he preferred the drawcut. This particular weapon is unquestionably and entirely attributable (and as a flyssa, naught else) despite its seeming scoliosis-- no doubt imparted by the fall. Perhaps the curator landed on't.

Ham

Thanks for gentle warning.
My first, second and nth thought about this St. Pete's sword is that the curators goofed in attributing it to C. Asia. The curvature doesn't deter me from attributing it first and foremost to N. Africa. Up to here it is simple.
My ( imaginary) trip along the limb was, in a way, a question: does anybody know of any C. Asian sword similar to this one?
Should we ask Borat?

19th December 2006, 10:47 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Emanuel, the Flyssa is slightly unusual...IMHO....it fits the overall description of one. Nice sword either way. As to the curve being formed from an originally straight blade......as the sword is forged, the curve would have been formed early in the making of the sword. To form the curve on an already forged straight blade would be more trouble than its worth...I believe it would be easier to forge a new blade. The one that caught my eye is the wavy edged Shamshir....I am wondering whether its wavy edge enhances its 'cutting abillity' when used with a 'slash' type blow.

19th December 2006, 01:45 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The exhibition describes it as an "Uzbeki Shashka". Very strange. I am quite uncertain about the validity of IDs: there is a typical Qajar Revival sword with a very usual point, described as Zulfiqar However, the ax is an Uzbeki Ay-Balta, the shamshir has a collar of turquoise on the throat of the scabbard ( you even can see a part of it in the picture showing the hilt of the "'shashka") and provenanced as the gift of the Emir of Bukhara to the Tsar, and the karud also has the same collar on the bolster. Assuming the Uzbeki attribution is correct, we can go on a very, very long limb: is it possible that the blade is the ancestor of both Laz Bicagi (Black Sea Yataghan) and Flyssa? I can see the proverbial fan turning my way..... Duck...

19th December 2006, 04:06 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	It's bloody obsessive isn't it? I'm certainly calmer now that I've seen the type of inlay on it. I'm thinking it's just another variant of flyssa produced in Algeria to different specs. I just haven't seen a curved example so far, this may be the first. It makes it quite beautiful, even more graceful than the "usual" kind.

20th December 2006, 06:00 AM	#6
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Ariel, back up cautiously, mind your way-- that limb had already snapped with a mighty crunch under the weight of the St. Pete curators' description before you got (far) out on it. Slight curvature in normally straight blades, or the reverse, need not alarm the good souls of the forum... these are simple variants which indicate the preference of the owner-- perhaps he preferred the drawcut. This particular weapon is unquestionably and entirely attributable (and as a flyssa, naught else) despite its seeming scoliosis-- no doubt imparted by the fall. Perhaps the curator landed on't. Ham