INTERESTING Ottoman (?) sword.... very old... comments?

Jim McDougall · 8th December 2006, 08:37 PM

Hi Valjhun,
This is a breathtaking piece!! which appears to be an Italian form, prior to the fully developed guards and probably dates end of the 15th c. according to typological examples found. In "Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820" (A.V.B.Norman, London, 1980) a similar hilt is shown as Italian c.1475-1525 (shown on p.82 as hilt form #18). Norman notes an example of this hilt is held in the Doges palace in Venice (catalog G690).
In "Armi Bianche Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, pl.145-47) these hilts are shown as Venetian c.1475-80.
It should be noted that these assymetrical form hilts were the basis in general for the later basket hilts known as schiavona, and the pommel form also is key to those seen on the schiavona. The schiavona was of course the distinct sword used by the Dalmatian guards who acted as guards as the Doge's palace in Venice.
The interesting marks with star and crescent may be Italian markings. In Boccia & Coelho (op.cit) p.358 there are blade markings which include the crescent moon, although they appear with either one or two crosses of the cross and orb form. I have not yet found one with the star, but would not be surprised for this to be included in such markings. The markings described are both noted as from Venice c.1500-1510.
I know I have seen a similar sword to this, especially by the distinctly shaped escutcheon on the crossguard, but as yet have not found it.

Now....please tell us where you have found this sword!!!

All the best,
Jim

8th December 2006, 08:37 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Valjhun, This is a breathtaking piece!! which appears to be an Italian form, prior to the fully developed guards and probably dates end of the 15th c. according to typological examples found. In "Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820" (A.V.B.Norman, London, 1980) a similar hilt is shown as Italian c.1475-1525 (shown on p.82 as hilt form #18). Norman notes an example of this hilt is held in the Doges palace in Venice (catalog G690). In "Armi Bianche Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, pl.145-47) these hilts are shown as Venetian c.1475-80. It should be noted that these assymetrical form hilts were the basis in general for the later basket hilts known as schiavona, and the pommel form also is key to those seen on the schiavona. The schiavona was of course the distinct sword used by the Dalmatian guards who acted as guards as the Doge's palace in Venice. The interesting marks with star and crescent may be Italian markings. In Boccia & Coelho (op.cit) p.358 there are blade markings which include the crescent moon, although they appear with either one or two crosses of the cross and orb form. I have not yet found one with the star, but would not be surprised for this to be included in such markings. The markings described are both noted as from Venice c.1500-1510. I know I have seen a similar sword to this, especially by the distinctly shaped escutcheon on the crossguard, but as yet have not found it. Now....please tell us where you have found this sword!!! All the best, Jim