Dayak parang ilang Handle

[VVV]

Hi Ben,

I don't see a face on all the hilts in Tromp?
And not on the example I have enclosed.
But I don't think they have the Tumpal motif either.
So it was just an idea on a slight resemblance and a possible connection?

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Michael I think this type off handle might be older then the tromp handle
because the lip at the back side we see disappear after 1900.


Ben

[Marcokeris]

Here two pages from Holstein book

[Dajak]

Hi Marcokeris can you tel me the writer from the book and what name the book have



Ben

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Marcokeris can you tel me the writer from the book and what name the book have



Ben

Hi Ben
the author is P. Holstein (a french collector)
The name of book is "Contribution a l'etude des armes orientales" edit in Paris in 1931 (french language!)
This work is divided in two big books:
the first is about description of oriental white weapons (india and indonesia),
the second is about author collection (extraordinary!) and all books are many plates
Even if it was edit in 1931 the quality of plates is really very good.
The book is rather rare (mybe is still possible to find a copy in ebay at good price).

[VVV]

Thanks Marcokeris for sharing these nice illustrations.
I somehow didn't see them last time I read the books.
Pierre Holstein's classical books are extremely expensive but fortunately they have them in one of the museum libraries here.
The text of the pages I read was only descriptions of the featured weapons, not cultural background etc. But the weapons in his books are all great.

I noticed that all of the illustrations on the these two pages were familiar.
It seems as if he has "ripped" most of the illustrations from Tromp and Hein's works?

Michael

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Ben,

I don't see a face on all the hilts in Tromp?
And not on the example I have enclosed.
But I don't think they have the Tumpal motif either.
So it was just an idea on a slight resemblance and a possible connection?

Michael

Hi Michael,
Some of Tromp's handles surely has faces but indeed not on all
I have seen them in Leiden and some of them are in the typical Koetei style with face.I have the idea that the face on the grip fade away after 1900 when headhunting was'nt practised as often as before the great peacemaking.

arjan.

[VVV]

Hi Arjan,

Interesting idea about the faces fading away later.
Is it just an unconfirmed idea or do you have any indications of why that could be the case?
I had the idea that it was the other way around based on how rare the old non-face hilts, those combined with high class blades, are?
Why do you think Tromp shows the non-face first and then the hilts with face?

Michael

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Arjan,

Interesting idea about the faces fading away later.
Is it just an unconfirmed idea or do you have any indications of why that could be the case?
I had the idea that it was the other way around based on how rare the old non-face hilts, those combined with high class blades, are?
Why do you think Tromp shows the non-face first and then the hilts with face?

Michael

Hi Michael,

its not just an idea,during my vistit in leiden I saw many "faced" mandaugrips in the collection who where collected before 1900.
the old one seems to have bigger noses,faces with more expression.
on the late models (around 1900) the faces are smaller and less expressive.
on later models its completely gone.
also on other models from other tribes you rarely see a face an mandauhilts after 1930.
indeed shows Tromp the non-faced mandau earlier because he also writes that the faced mandau was quite common in those days and the non faced quite rare. ( we speak about pre 1900)

Arjan.

[VVV]

Hi Arjan,

Reading your comment I realized that maybe we have the same view?
19th C and earlier the non-face hilts were quite rare to find among Koetei/Kutei mandaus, maybe an older or more exclusive version (like the Nieuwenhuis Mandau)?
In 20th C they became more popular again.
One reason could be that headhunting stopped as you suggest.
Another reason could be that Christianity entered the scene among the Dayaks and the face handles were connected to the old beliefs?

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi The headhunting didn t stop after 1900 in word war 2 japanese soldiers
did loose their heads in Borneo

Hi Arjan that was what I was thinking too about the Hilt that it was imitated
by the Iban because it has Iban influence also the blade
thanks for your search.

Also Thanks Michael for the Holstein stuff very nice did you notice that there is an good picture off an Bayu


Ben

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi The headhunting didn t stop after 1900 in word war 2 japanese soldiers
did loose their heads in BorneoBen

Just a side note: Japanese also lost their heads among the Igorot head hunters in the Philippines in World War 2.