Fencing with Sabers

[Zifir]

Originally Posted by Yustas

Thank's Zifir,
Can i find this book on the web?

Unfortunately, no. These are the notes that I took when I read that book long time ago. Until I saw this topic, I had completely forgotten about them. I think only places to find it are libraries or some rare book dealers if they have any copy.

Originally Posted by Manolo

Wasn't the kilij also used by infantry among the Ottoman/Turkish troups? This would inply a far more complex system of sword-play than simply slashing from horse-back.

I believe so. We have to be careful not to subscribe to the views of the European traveller/spy? accounts too readily. This guy was writing in a time when the superiority of Western military over Ottomans was already proven. His approach and views inescapably carry that self-confidence and also negligence over what he regarded as backward. But as long as we don't have a manuscript or a manual about such techniques, we can only speculate about it.

Originally Posted by Manolo

Zifir, this quote
"Their best Turkish sabers have one great defect, brittleness; they are apt to fly like glass by a blow given injudiciously, though a person used to cut with them will, without any danger of breaking saber or turning its edge, cut through an iron nail as thick as a man’s finger."
relates well to the True Combat Value of Wootz thread...I assume a perfect draw cut would be needed to cut through the nail rather than a simple edge-on hack as that would shatter the blade?
What I mean is, would the cut nail be a result of a drawing motion or simply due to the impact of the edge?
Emanuel

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Zifir,

Again many thanks for your extremely informative quotes from that book.

I believe that this material is highly relevant to another concurrent thread, "True Combat Value of Wootz", and I think that you or the moderators should cross-post it there as well.

Cheers
Chris

We cannot be completely sure but I think he refers to wootz blades. I don't know if cutting through an iron nail thick as a man's finger thing is true. We might need mythbusters to prove or disprove such a thing. Maybe there are some members who knows more about this, or came across such references.

[Emanuel]

Hi Zifir,

Thanks for the clarification! I can put into better words my confusion so far, and I can ask my question to the experienced metallurgists as well.
When hitting the iron chain/nail/armour/whatever, does the blade cut through the material or just break through it? Will the perfectly-forged wootz blade cut into the iron as it would cut into the wooden block, or does it split the iron from shear force?

Many thanks,
Emanuel

[Zifir]

Emanuel, it's probably out of the topic but you may wanna check this out.

http://www.thehaca.com/Videos/NTCvid...dmaterials.htm

[Emanuel]

Excellent site Zifir!

Good demonstrations of cutting techniques. Too bad they only cover European straight swords and not curved sabres as well. Among the last clips, there is one in which the swordsman hacks into a tree (bamboo) and eventually snaps the blade in half...I think it perfectly shows a break from lateral stress as the blade bit into the wood and was pulled sideways.

Thanks!
Emanuel