Comments on my father's Keris

okhba3 · 16th February 2005, 12:13 AM

few added photos

okhba3 · 10th July 2006, 10:38 AM

Sorry to bring up this old thread. A few weeks ago, there was a Keris exhibition in Jakarta, Indonesia. My father went there and there was a stand for Keris consultation. So my father brought his Keris with him and this is the result according to the consultant:
Keris Luk 11
Dapur Nogososro
Tangguh Mataram
Kinatah Kemarogan
Pamor "Persi Dewata" Segoro Muncar
Perabot Gayaman
Hulu (Hilt): Gading Putra 1

I don't know exactly what each of those means and I cannot translate it properly to English (except probably for Hilt). Appreciate any comments.

Alam Shah · 10th July 2006, 11:44 AM

A little explanation about the consultation remarks:

Keris Luk 11 = The blade has 11 meandering curves known as luks.
Dapur Nogososro = The blade design, is in the Nogososro (dragon) form.
Tangguh Mataram = is the estimated period when it was made.
(For more info: http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/intr...n/kingdoms.htm)
Kinatah Kamarogan = is the gold/brass-works, relief decoration on a blade with.
Pamor "Persi Dewata" Segoro Muncar = is the pattern found on the blade.
Perabot Gayaman = is the sheath form, meant for everyday use (not for officail ceremonies).
Hulu (Hilt): Gading Putra 1 = is the ivory carving design of the hilt (ukiran).

Hope that helped.

Mudi · 10th July 2006, 02:37 PM

Salam Pak Shah

Good job to explain the various terms. I think this keris is from Cirebon, and not Madura. Sorry that for me the photos are not sharp, and it would be good to also see the peksi.

Alam Shah · 10th July 2006, 04:04 PM

Salaam Mudi, welcome to the forum.

You come from a place where its kerises and badik interest me a lot.

As for this keris, it's fittings does suggest from Cirebon.

okhba3 · 11th July 2006, 03:12 AM

Hi Pak Alam Shah and Pak Muhdi,
thanks for the explanation and comments. That's a really good summary. My father was born in Cirebon and indeed got the Keris when he was there.
Further on the Tangguh Mataram part and the link provided, I would presume that this Keris is from the second Mataram period (17th to 18th Century) ?

nechesh · 11th July 2006, 03:55 AM

Hi Okhba, welcome to the forum. When your father gets a chance i hope he might be able to make some clear, in focus and up close images of this keris. It appears nice, but i am not convinced it is of the age of 17th or 18th century. Keep in mind also that tangguh is an estimate and a classification. It could be problematic if we attempt to apply it to any specific dates. Sometimes blades fall into a particular tangguh, but weren't crafted until some time after the historical period of that kingdom. It is not necessarily correct to equate tangguh with the actual dating of a keris. Also, there is often an overlapping of influences in most keris. Experts judging tangguh often need to weigh whether a blade is more one tangguh than another when coming up with their assessment. Often experts will disagree. Sometimes even the same expert will give one tangguh at one time and a different one at another. I don't know enough about how to judge tangguh to know if that is the case with your father's keris. It does appear to be a nice keris though.
Have you seen this keris yourself firsthand. I ask because in the photos the kinatah looks very coppery. I wonder whether the color might be off on the photos, or if this might be gold with a very high copper level (rose gold?) or whether iot is gold at all. I suspect it has gold in it, but from the pictures i just can't tell. Better pictures would be helpful.

Alam Shah · 11th July 2006, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okhba3

Hi Pak Alam Shah and Pak Muhdi,
thanks for the explanation and comments. That's a really good summary. My father was born in Cirebon and indeed got the Keris when he was there.
Further on the Tangguh Mataram part and the link provided, I would presume that this Keris is from the second Mataram period (17th to 18th Century) ?

Tangguh is a very subjective issue, but based on the consultants opinion, it's should be second Mataram. Looking at the blade.... hmmm, perhaps clearer pictures would help.

16th February 2005, 12:13 AM	#1
okhba3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 10	more photos few added photos Attached Images

10th July 2006, 10:38 AM	#2
okhba3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 10	My father's keris identification Sorry to bring up this old thread. A few weeks ago, there was a Keris exhibition in Jakarta, Indonesia. My father went there and there was a stand for Keris consultation. So my father brought his Keris with him and this is the result according to the consultant: Keris Luk 11 Dapur Nogososro Tangguh Mataram Kinatah Kemarogan Pamor "Persi Dewata" Segoro Muncar Perabot Gayaman Hulu (Hilt): Gading Putra 1 I don't know exactly what each of those means and I cannot translate it properly to English (except probably for Hilt). Appreciate any comments.

10th July 2006, 11:44 AM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Keris Consultation review... A little explanation about the consultation remarks: Keris Luk 11 = The blade has 11 meandering curves known as luks. Dapur Nogososro = The blade design, is in the Nogososro (dragon) form. Tangguh Mataram = is the estimated period when it was made. (For more info: http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/intr...n/kingdoms.htm) Kinatah Kamarogan = is the gold/brass-works, relief decoration on a blade with. Pamor "Persi Dewata" Segoro Muncar = is the pattern found on the blade. Perabot Gayaman = is the sheath form, meant for everyday use (not for officail ceremonies). Hulu (Hilt): Gading Putra 1 = is the ivory carving design of the hilt (ukiran). Hope that helped. Last edited by Alam Shah; 10th July 2006 at 11:55 AM.

11th July 2006, 03:55 AM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Okhba, welcome to the forum. When your father gets a chance i hope he might be able to make some clear, in focus and up close images of this keris. It appears nice, but i am not convinced it is of the age of 17th or 18th century. Keep in mind also that tangguh is an estimate and a classification. It could be problematic if we attempt to apply it to any specific dates. Sometimes blades fall into a particular tangguh, but weren't crafted until some time after the historical period of that kingdom. It is not necessarily correct to equate tangguh with the actual dating of a keris. Also, there is often an overlapping of influences in most keris. Experts judging tangguh often need to weigh whether a blade is more one tangguh than another when coming up with their assessment. Often experts will disagree. Sometimes even the same expert will give one tangguh at one time and a different one at another. I don't know enough about how to judge tangguh to know if that is the case with your father's keris. It does appear to be a nice keris though. Have you seen this keris yourself firsthand. I ask because in the photos the kinatah looks very coppery. I wonder whether the color might be off on the photos, or if this might be gold with a very high copper level (rose gold?) or whether iot is gold at all. I suspect it has gold in it, but from the pictures i just can't tell. Better pictures would be helpful. Last edited by nechesh; 11th July 2006 at 04:26 AM.

10th July 2006, 02:37 PM	#4
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	Salam Pak Shah Good job to explain the various terms. I think this keris is from Cirebon, and not Madura. Sorry that for me the photos are not sharp, and it would be good to also see the peksi.

10th July 2006, 04:04 PM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Salaam Mudi, welcome to the forum. You come from a place where its kerises and badik interest me a lot. As for this keris, it's fittings does suggest from Cirebon.

11th July 2006, 03:12 AM	#6
okhba3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 10	Hi Pak Alam Shah and Pak Muhdi, thanks for the explanation and comments. That's a really good summary. My father was born in Cirebon and indeed got the Keris when he was there. Further on the Tangguh Mataram part and the link provided, I would presume that this Keris is from the second Mataram period (17th to 18th Century) ?