Rare Dayak Daggers - Sadop and Dohong

Mytribalworld · 15th November 2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Arjan can you look up for the Item numbers what date they came into the museum

Ben

Hi Ben,

will do in the next weeks I will visit the archives of leiden and will look for that.
between my articles I found this about a bayu wich was collected by Bier during the expedition with Nieuwenhuis.
the article if from Stingl " Schwerter aus Zentral Kalimantan.
jahrbuch des museums fur volkerkunde Leipzig 1969
its a very good study, also because Nieuwenhuis/Bier was almost the only one who gave good descriptions when they collected and mentioned ,place,name of the tribe etc.
sadly the pics are quite bad.

Arjan.

VVV · 15th November 2006, 10:32 AM

Thanks for posting another example of this rare sword.
I noticed that the scabbard of the Bier Bayu resembles the one of Karsten's (looks more like a regular mandau scabbard than having the profile of the Bayu blade).
Also the hilt looks more like a regular mandau hilt than the variation of Ben's example and the one in Blink (illustration below as a reference).
In the Leiden catalogues two Dayak tribes are referred to; "Kajahan" (Kayan?) for the one with regular mandau antler hilt and "Bejadju" for the one with a wooden hilt. The picture of the one with wooden hilt is unfortunately not that good so I am insecure if it's related to the Blink version?
In Shelford's article the Bayu is classified as a Sea-Dayak sword but I doubt that this is the case?However he describes his example as having a regular mandau hilt.
Do you think that the hilt form variations are tribal or maybe they are age indicators?
Or maybe all Bayu are Kayan and the note in the catalogue is wrong?

Michael

Dajak · 15th November 2006, 12:12 PM

Hi Michael I think hilts are age indicators and that all Bayu are Kayan and the note in the catalogue is MAYBE wrong . (not for sure)

Look at these pis you see latok with this handle or mandau

Latok handle look like the mandua I put pic on could be same tribe so it is in my opinnion an not an seadayak one.( also blade not curved al sea dayak ones have it )

VVV · 15th November 2006, 12:44 PM

Hi Ben,

I see some similarities in style but still think there are more differences in the handle. Interesting comparison however.
On Shelfords mentioning of Bayu as a Seadayak sword I took a closer look at the reference picture. It's not a "proper" Bayu in his article but something closer to the blade of the parang we posted on the recent Sumatra Borneo thread. But with a mandau hilt and a long back edge.

Michael

Mytribalworld · 15th November 2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Thanks for posting another example of this rare sword.
I noticed that the scabbard of the Bier Bayu resembles the one of Karsten's (looks more like a regular mandau scabbard than having the profile of the Bayu blade).
Also the hilt looks more like a regular mandau hilt than the variation of Ben's example and the one in Blink (illustration below as a reference).
In the Leiden catalogues two Dayak tribes are referred to; "Kajahan" (Kayan?) for the one with regular mandau antler hilt and "Bejadju" for the one with a wooden hilt. The picture of the one with wooden hilt is unfortunately not that good so I am insecure if it's related to the Blink version?
In Shelford's article the Bayu is classified as a Sea-Dayak sword but I doubt that this is the case?However he describes his example as having a regular mandau hilt.
Do you think that the hilt form variations are tribal or maybe they are age indicators?
Or maybe all Bayu are Kayan and the note in the catalogue is wrong?

Michael

Hi Michael,

Bier gives as tribe with this bayu the "Kantuk" tribe from upriver Kapuas.
It must be a tribe related to the kajan as you see on the style of the hilt.

what I think is that the bayu was in use by different tribes all over Borneo.
seen to the very different handles ( I also found two examples in the collection of the Leiden Museum wich had totally different styles)
one was mentioned as "South Borneo".

Arjan

Dajak · 16th November 2006, 03:13 AM

Hi Arjan what is the time they bring the weapons in

Ben

Mytribalworld · 16th November 2006, 05:18 PM

Hi Ben,

one ( 16-284 ) is a very early collected piece came in to the museum around 1860 but was from the journey of Salomon Muller who visited Borneo in 1836.
Salomon visited the south of Borneo the aria upriver Barito from Banjarmassin.
In his book there's one time that he mentioned " we bought some chickens and other food,some mats,weaponery and jewellery" in the village Lontontoer.So its possible that he obtained this Bayu there.

the other (781-04) I'm not for sure but the number is from just before 1900.
the handle looks almost chinese and the scabbard has a " never used patina".

Arjan.

Albert · 16th November 2006, 09:26 PM

Some additional information that may be helpful: 781-104 (781-04 does not exist) is, according to Juynboll, called a pisau poelang banaga (sword with a hilt with a naga). It has been collected in South-East Borneo by Mr. W.E.M.S. Aernout and has come into the collection of the museum in 1890, from his legacy.

Albert

VVV · 17th November 2006, 06:34 AM

Thanks Albert and Arjan,

Why isn't 781-104 among the other Bayu in Juynboll but placed among the transition swords to Mandau? Doesn't the blade follow the regular Bayu shape?

There is one additional Bayu in the picture archive as well as Juynboll, 659-87. It's unfortunately hard to see the details of its wooden hilt (it's the one classified as Bejadju).
Also, in my version, the German one (I assume you have the Dutch version?), on page 238 (the last sword before Latok starts), there is referred to "E.C.V. 90" instead of a regular catalogue number.
Do you kow what that means and how to find the picture of this 4th Bayu?

Michael

15th November 2006, 10:32 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for posting another example of this rare sword. I noticed that the scabbard of the Bier Bayu resembles the one of Karsten's (looks more like a regular mandau scabbard than having the profile of the Bayu blade). Also the hilt looks more like a regular mandau hilt than the variation of Ben's example and the one in Blink (illustration below as a reference). In the Leiden catalogues two Dayak tribes are referred to; "Kajahan" (Kayan?) for the one with regular mandau antler hilt and "Bejadju" for the one with a wooden hilt. The picture of the one with wooden hilt is unfortunately not that good so I am insecure if it's related to the Blink version? In Shelford's article the Bayu is classified as a Sea-Dayak sword but I doubt that this is the case?However he describes his example as having a regular mandau hilt. Do you think that the hilt form variations are tribal or maybe they are age indicators? Or maybe all Bayu are Kayan and the note in the catalogue is wrong? Michael Attached Images

15th November 2006, 12:12 PM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael I think hilts are age indicators and that all Bayu are Kayan and the note in the catalogue is MAYBE wrong . (not for sure) Look at these pis you see latok with this handle or mandau Latok handle look like the mandua I put pic on could be same tribe so it is in my opinnion an not an seadayak one.( also blade not curved al sea dayak ones have it ) Attached Images

15th November 2006, 12:44 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Ben, I see some similarities in style but still think there are more differences in the handle. Interesting comparison however. On Shelfords mentioning of Bayu as a Seadayak sword I took a closer look at the reference picture. It's not a "proper" Bayu in his article but something closer to the blade of the parang we posted on the recent Sumatra Borneo thread. But with a mandau hilt and a long back edge. Michael

16th November 2006, 03:13 AM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Arjan what is the time they bring the weapons in Ben

16th November 2006, 05:18 PM	#7
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Hi Ben, one ( 16-284 ) is a very early collected piece came in to the museum around 1860 but was from the journey of Salomon Muller who visited Borneo in 1836. Salomon visited the south of Borneo the aria upriver Barito from Banjarmassin. In his book there's one time that he mentioned " we bought some chickens and other food,some mats,weaponery and jewellery" in the village Lontontoer.So its possible that he obtained this Bayu there. the other (781-04) I'm not for sure but the number is from just before 1900. the handle looks almost chinese and the scabbard has a " never used patina". Arjan.

16th November 2006, 09:26 PM	#8
Albert Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 202	Some additional information that may be helpful: 781-104 (781-04 does not exist) is, according to Juynboll, called a pisau poelang banaga (sword with a hilt with a naga). It has been collected in South-East Borneo by Mr. W.E.M.S. Aernout and has come into the collection of the museum in 1890, from his legacy. Albert

17th November 2006, 06:34 AM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Albert and Arjan, Why isn't 781-104 among the other Bayu in Juynboll but placed among the transition swords to Mandau? Doesn't the blade follow the regular Bayu shape? There is one additional Bayu in the picture archive as well as Juynboll, 659-87. It's unfortunately hard to see the details of its wooden hilt (it's the one classified as Bejadju). Also, in my version, the German one (I assume you have the Dutch version?), on page 238 (the last sword before Latok starts), there is referred to "E.C.V. 90" instead of a regular catalogue number. Do you kow what that means and how to find the picture of this 4th Bayu? Michael