Borneo ?? Sumatra ??

Dajak · 3rd November 2006, 10:22 PM

Hi if we look in the data base off the museums off the Netherlands
this piece is from Borneo

There is also a picture in Quer Durch Borneo that has a sword with an handle like this

The brass wire we see only in Borneo on the Hilt never in Sumatra

blade form we see on other Islands off Indonesia

It is always difficult to say if 2 Islands close together

Michael wich part off the blade you wanna close up

Rick · 4th November 2006, 12:18 AM

Here is a similar wire braid (without the twist) on a kris .
Sulu ?
Maguindanao?

Dajak · 4th November 2006, 12:57 AM

Hi Rick that is an nice could be used in North Borneo
I have an murut sword from North Borneo whit an moro Binding

Dajak · 4th November 2006, 12:58 AM

Murut

Rick · 4th November 2006, 01:20 AM

I tell you Dajak this Borneo/Sulu/Mindanao Moro line seems very blurred.
In a lot of ways the blade on the subject piece of this thread reminds me of a Bangkung.

Sometimes I wonder if we will ever be able to sort it all out .

Ian · 4th November 2006, 03:16 AM

Rick:

IIRC bangkung is a Sulawesi term, at least that is how it appears to be characterized in v. Zonneveld. The blade form, however, is quite widespread -- from Sumatra to Borneo to Mindanao, as well as Sulawesi. In the Philippines, Cato states that the bangkung is mainly a weapon of the Yakan on Basilan. However, this blade form is seen quite commonly on Lumad swords of the Bagobo/Kaolu, while the ginunting of Negros Occidental (Visayas) also has some similarity to a bangkung.

Ian

Dajak · 4th November 2006, 06:27 AM

Hi Ian

For us from overseas in the Netherlands we call all the Philipinne krissen Sundang moro krissen or moro kris
sorry for that

Don t keep the Zonneveld book to much as a reference on Borneo Items because he made a few mistakes in it that I already discussed with him .

HE DID PUT WITH THE JIMPULS AN BLADE THAT IS NOT AN JIMPUL .
I ASK HIM WHY YOU DO THIS HIS ;

...... ANSWER WAS I COULD NOT FIND ANY DOCUMENTATION ON THIS TYPE OFF SWORD ........

So in my opinnion do things like this is wrong .

The problem with this now that some one with an blade form like pic 165 on page 57 thinks he have an Jimpul.

regards Ben

4th November 2006, 12:18 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Here is a similar wire braid (without the twist) on a kris . Sulu ? Maguindanao? Attached Images

4th November 2006, 12:57 AM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Rick that is an nice could be used in North Borneo I have an murut sword from North Borneo whit an moro Binding Attached Images

4th November 2006, 12:58 AM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Murut Attached Images

4th November 2006, 03:16 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Bangkung Rick: IIRC bangkung is a Sulawesi term, at least that is how it appears to be characterized in v. Zonneveld. The blade form, however, is quite widespread -- from Sumatra to Borneo to Mindanao, as well as Sulawesi. In the Philippines, Cato states that the bangkung is mainly a weapon of the Yakan on Basilan. However, this blade form is seen quite commonly on Lumad swords of the Bagobo/Kaolu, while the ginunting of Negros Occidental (Visayas) also has some similarity to a bangkung. Ian

3rd November 2006, 10:22 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi if we look in the data base off the museums off the Netherlands this piece is from Borneo There is also a picture in Quer Durch Borneo that has a sword with an handle like this The brass wire we see only in Borneo on the Hilt never in Sumatra blade form we see on other Islands off Indonesia It is always difficult to say if 2 Islands close together Michael wich part off the blade you wanna close up

4th November 2006, 01:20 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I tell you Dajak this Borneo/Sulu/Mindanao Moro line seems very blurred. In a lot of ways the blade on the subject piece of this thread reminds me of a Bangkung. Sometimes I wonder if we will ever be able to sort it all out .

4th November 2006, 06:27 AM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Ian For us from overseas in the Netherlands we call all the Philipinne krissen Sundang moro krissen or moro kris sorry for that Don t keep the Zonneveld book to much as a reference on Borneo Items because he made a few mistakes in it that I already discussed with him . HE DID PUT WITH THE JIMPULS AN BLADE THAT IS NOT AN JIMPUL . I ASK HIM WHY YOU DO THIS HIS ; ...... ANSWER WAS I COULD NOT FIND ANY DOCUMENTATION ON THIS TYPE OFF SWORD ........ So in my opinnion do things like this is wrong . The problem with this now that some one with an blade form like pic 165 on page 57 thinks he have an Jimpul. regards Ben