Indian Katar

Jens Nordlunde · 31st October 2006, 09:54 PM

Hi Fernando,
You should know, that it is not possible for a normal western hand to fit into a katar hilt. There have been several discussions about this, and no one could prove that it would fit.
Try to make a search.

Aurangzeb · 1st November 2006, 04:32 AM

My hand does fit somewhat good on the crossbars. As to wether it has a watered blade, I'm not really sur is there a way to check to see if it is because it is well wire brushed. I will try to get a close up of the untouched space between the crossbars later. So this dates to about the late 18th. or early 19th. century probalbly. Can this one be put to a specific rehion? Thanks for the help!

Mark...

fernando · 1st November 2006, 12:28 PM

Thanks Mark for your answer, i will apreciate that picture.

Hi Jens, i am aware of that field of discussion, but my question is a bit of a diverted one as, apart from having a katar ( jemadhar, learning with JimMacDougall ) with a fair fit handle, i also have this one with an unusually narrow width ( 6 cms. ), that was sold to me as an "adolescent" katar. I haven't yet seen this specific situation well established by the Experts, or confirmed in any text.

fernando

Jens Nordlunde · 1st November 2006, 01:35 PM

Hi Fernando,

You are not likely to see anything along that line proven by experts.

One of the only things I can suggest is to make the Barleycorn test, and see how it fits to your finger width. Eight Barleycorns should be the width of one index finger measured at the tip. This measure was used for measuring the length and width of blades, and possible hilts as well.

I have had a look at some katars, the most narrow one measures 6.2 cm at the cross bars and the biggest 8.5 cm. This is a difference of 2.3 cm, which I think is quite a lot. Another thing which we must be remembered is, that people who could afford it, had weapons ‘tailored’ to fit them, but those who could not afford this, had to do with the standard size, made by the armouries. In India boys were trained in using weapons, from they were very young, and I have no doubt, that they also had their own weapons, could their parents afford it – made to fit their size of course.

fernando · 1st November 2006, 08:28 PM

Thanks a lot Jens, for your info and explanations.
fernando

CollectingNewbie · 1st November 2006, 08:40 PM

Ive owned a few of them since I started collecting and since I knew nothing about them at the time I assumed the small handles which would not fit my hand were made for children and resold them

But I just recently bought one with a 10 inch blade and maybe I missed this in a priv. post but does anyone know excatally why the handles are so small? Did they all just have very small hands or did they hold them diffrently then the design indicates? Im lost maybe someone out there knows.

Tim Simmons · 1st November 2006, 08:51 PM

Boy soldiers. I have stated this before which was left in question. I cannot see why this is not so, boys have been used in the British army up untill the later part of the 19th century, and are still used in Africa today. I might add also anywhere conflict is out of the way and not involving the latest weapons technology.

Lew · 1st November 2006, 09:01 PM

Newbie

Most of these katars are from the 1700s and early 1800s people in general were smaller than we are today therefore smaller people smaller hands. My grandparents who first arrived from Europe in the late 1800s were small grandpa was 5'4" and grandmother was 4'10" I am 5'11" tall so go figure?

Lew

31st October 2006, 09:54 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Fernando, You should know, that it is not possible for a normal western hand to fit into a katar hilt. There have been several discussions about this, and no one could prove that it would fit. Try to make a search.

1st November 2006, 04:32 AM	#2
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	My hand does fit somewhat good on the crossbars. As to wether it has a watered blade, I'm not really sur is there a way to check to see if it is because it is well wire brushed. I will try to get a close up of the untouched space between the crossbars later. So this dates to about the late 18th. or early 19th. century probalbly. Can this one be put to a specific rehion? Thanks for the help! Mark...

1st November 2006, 12:28 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks Mark for your answer, i will apreciate that picture. Hi Jens, i am aware of that field of discussion, but my question is a bit of a diverted one as, apart from having a katar ( jemadhar, learning with JimMacDougall ) with a fair fit handle, i also have this one with an unusually narrow width ( 6 cms. ), that was sold to me as an "adolescent" katar. I haven't yet seen this specific situation well established by the Experts, or confirmed in any text. fernando

1st November 2006, 01:35 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Fernando, You are not likely to see anything along that line proven by experts. One of the only things I can suggest is to make the Barleycorn test, and see how it fits to your finger width. Eight Barleycorns should be the width of one index finger measured at the tip. This measure was used for measuring the length and width of blades, and possible hilts as well. I have had a look at some katars, the most narrow one measures 6.2 cm at the cross bars and the biggest 8.5 cm. This is a difference of 2.3 cm, which I think is quite a lot. Another thing which we must be remembered is, that people who could afford it, had weapons ‘tailored’ to fit them, but those who could not afford this, had to do with the standard size, made by the armouries. In India boys were trained in using weapons, from they were very young, and I have no doubt, that they also had their own weapons, could their parents afford it – made to fit their size of course.

1st November 2006, 08:28 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks a lot Jens, for your info and explanations. fernando

1st November 2006, 08:40 PM	#6
CollectingNewbie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 160	Ive owned a few of them since I started collecting and since I knew nothing about them at the time I assumed the small handles which would not fit my hand were made for children and resold them But I just recently bought one with a 10 inch blade and maybe I missed this in a priv. post but does anyone know excatally why the handles are so small? Did they all just have very small hands or did they hold them diffrently then the design indicates? Im lost maybe someone out there knows.

1st November 2006, 08:51 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Boy soldiers. I have stated this before which was left in question. I cannot see why this is not so, boys have been used in the British army up untill the later part of the 19th century, and are still used in Africa today. I might add also anywhere conflict is out of the way and not involving the latest weapons technology.

1st November 2006, 09:01 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Newbie Most of these katars are from the 1700s and early 1800s people in general were smaller than we are today therefore smaller people smaller hands. My grandparents who first arrived from Europe in the late 1800s were small grandpa was 5'4" and grandmother was 4'10" I am 5'11" tall so go figure? Lew