A Coteng for comment...

BluErf · 13th February 2005, 01:05 AM

A hunch -- Someone in Riau or Java is making these 'proxies' of cotengs. They get the general sense of the aesthetics from looking at tajong and coteng kerises and they make the hulu based on pictures and a bit of artistic license. If you look at the hulu from the side, it looks most accurate, but the 'properness' begins to break down when you look at it from other angles. I feel that this was the result of looking at 2 dimensional pictures, which resulted in the hulu being accurate only in 2-dimension.

Because putting the handle on a panjang is closest to the real tajong/coteng in terms of proportions (long batang), so they did it.

Attach pictures of a Sumatran hulu with similar hair motif, and as for the rhombuses with a swirl, I have a picture of a Balinese hilt with such a motif. Come to think about it, I've seen this rhombus pattern mostly on N Coast and E Coast Java and Bali hulu. I have one other hulu in my collection which I do not have time to take pictures of. I think its S. Sumatran. It has the rhombus motif. Will post pictures later.

BluErf · 13th February 2005, 04:27 PM

Ok, after taking closer looks at coteng hulu from Dave and Paul's collection, I have to say this -- the hair motif, although Sumatran-looking, could possibly be found in similar form on a coteng hulu. So does the "swirl-in-rhombus" motif. Regardless, when I see the motifs, I still get this "something's not quite right" feeling.

BSMStar · 13th February 2005, 10:18 PM

Here is a link to Paul's Keris Page:

http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/index.html

Other links

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...ion/patani.htm
http://blade.japet.com/U-pattani.htm

The last link shows a wood version of a Coteng that is shaped over all like mine. Any comments?

Thank you BluErf for your pictures. I'm hoping for someone to post better pictures of older and newer Cotengs than the links I have here.

BSMStar · 14th February 2005, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Ok, after taking closer looks at coteng hulu from Dave and Paul's collection, I have to say this -- the hair motif, although Sumatran-looking, could possibly be found in similar form on a coteng hulu. So does the "swirl-in-rhombus" motif. Regardless, when I see the motifs, I still get this "something's not quite right" feeling.

In looking at these links, one thing that stands out to me is that my hilt has a mendok like piece at its base. None of the other Coteng examples have this.

BluErf · 14th February 2005, 01:54 PM

Apart from the upward curving nose, I don't think they are very similar. Even the way the nose curves are different between the 2 hilts. The best way for you to appreciate the difference is really to look at a good old coteng hilt. Maybe some forum members can post bigger pics from their own collection to help illustrate?

DAHenkel · 15th February 2005, 12:07 PM

Okay - Mine is on the left, Paul's is on the right.

BSMStar · 15th February 2005, 11:29 PM

Now I am drooling.

Comparing these two great examples to mine.... I can see the mine is very different, more rounded (not as angular).

I still want to point out that mine has a "spherical" belly, sitting on a spherical rather than a teardrop shape "base." Also mine has a separate Mendok of solid silver, which no examples have that I have seen have a Mendok like piece at the base of the hilt.

Awesom examples!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!! Now, does mine classify as a repro?? Or something else?

Battara · 16th February 2005, 11:26 PM

Thank you Dahenkel. I now understand the point (every pun intended

) of the comparison as well.

13th February 2005, 01:05 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	A hunch -- Someone in Riau or Java is making these 'proxies' of cotengs. They get the general sense of the aesthetics from looking at tajong and coteng kerises and they make the hulu based on pictures and a bit of artistic license. If you look at the hulu from the side, it looks most accurate, but the 'properness' begins to break down when you look at it from other angles. I feel that this was the result of looking at 2 dimensional pictures, which resulted in the hulu being accurate only in 2-dimension. Because putting the handle on a panjang is closest to the real tajong/coteng in terms of proportions (long batang), so they did it. Attach pictures of a Sumatran hulu with similar hair motif, and as for the rhombuses with a swirl, I have a picture of a Balinese hilt with such a motif. Come to think about it, I've seen this rhombus pattern mostly on N Coast and E Coast Java and Bali hulu. I have one other hulu in my collection which I do not have time to take pictures of. I think its S. Sumatran. It has the rhombus motif. Will post pictures later. Attached Images

13th February 2005, 10:18 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Here is a link to Paul's Keris Page: http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/index.html Other links http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...ion/patani.htm http://blade.japet.com/U-pattani.htm The last link shows a wood version of a Coteng that is shaped over all like mine. Any comments? Thank you BluErf for your pictures. I'm hoping for someone to post better pictures of older and newer Cotengs than the links I have here. Last edited by BSMStar; 13th February 2005 at 10:48 PM.

15th February 2005, 12:07 PM	#6
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Okay - Mine is on the left, Paul's is on the right. Attached Images Last edited by DAHenkel; 15th February 2005 at 10:56 PM.

15th February 2005, 11:29 PM	#7
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Now I am drooling. Comparing these two great examples to mine.... I can see the mine is very different, more rounded (not as angular). I still want to point out that mine has a "spherical" belly, sitting on a spherical rather than a teardrop shape "base." Also mine has a separate Mendok of solid silver, which no examples have that I have seen have a Mendok like piece at the base of the hilt. Awesom examples!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!! Now, does mine classify as a repro?? Or something else? Last edited by BSMStar; 15th February 2005 at 11:40 PM.

13th February 2005, 04:27 PM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ok, after taking closer looks at coteng hulu from Dave and Paul's collection, I have to say this -- the hair motif, although Sumatran-looking, could possibly be found in similar form on a coteng hulu. So does the "swirl-in-rhombus" motif. Regardless, when I see the motifs, I still get this "something's not quite right" feeling.

14th February 2005, 01:54 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Apart from the upward curving nose, I don't think they are very similar. Even the way the nose curves are different between the 2 hilts. The best way for you to appreciate the difference is really to look at a good old coteng hilt. Maybe some forum members can post bigger pics from their own collection to help illustrate?

16th February 2005, 11:26 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Thank you Dahenkel. I now understand the point (every pun intended ) of the comparison as well.