True Combat Value of Wootz

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Ariel,



I am one who believes that swords have a definite service life, after which they better be retired from active duty. Of course, if the blade saw little or no use, then it can be used indefinitely. My problem is not with old swords kept as family heorlooms, but as when supposedly used used for combat, from generation to generation. Internal flaws can grow with repeated loading on the blade.


Cheers
Chris

No doubt, a combination of age and mileage will induce a lot of infirmities and I can only empathize
On the other hand, I would not be excited having a sword that spent its entire life in some armoury, cleaned and oiled at 3 months intervals.

I have a wakizashi that bears a signature of somebody from 13th(?) century. Probably, forged. It is so old, that it has about half of its original width left. I dread to think of all the mechanical stresses it went through. I would not dream offering it to somebody for a cutting test. But, if it had been polished and repolished so many times, it must have signified something to its many owners. It earned a comfortable retirement in a company of other, equally scarred, veterans.

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by ariel

I have a wakizashi that bears a signature of somebody from 13th(?) century. Probably, forged. It is so old, that it has about half of its original width left. I dread to think of all the mechanical stresses it went through. I would not dream offering it to somebody for a cutting test. But, if it had been polished and repolished so many times, it must have signified something to its many owners. It earned a comfortable retirement in a company of other, equally scarred, veterans.

And I bet that it is worth quite a bit!

Cheers
Chris

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

And I bet that it is worth quite a bit!

Cheers
Chris

Na-a-ah... I am sure no true Nihonto fanatic would want it.
I got it at a local gun and knife show in a pile of rusty bayonets and spent an equivalent of a sushi lunch on it. No sake.

[Lee]

Bladesmith Dan Maragni told me once that for a while, British Army blades were being very strenuously tested, every one, as they came into service, to assure quality. They passed the test but went on to fail in use. The severity of the testing had damaged them.

It is interesting when you have an opportunity to examine old blades, from the age of serious use, that have managed to survive above ground and dry. Very often there is evidence of deformity from use and its repair and rehoning. I gather nicks must be removed before the next use or the nick will be the starting point of failure when the blade is next put under load.

It is also interesting to consider what blades have survived in good numbers versus those once very common but now very scarce. Odd specialized specimens were possibly less likely to be "used up" or perhaps saved as a curiosity while some mainline medieval forms that continued in use for a very long time must have been pretty much exhausted as they are quite scarce in surviving material.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Lee,

Originally Posted by Lee

Bladesmith Dan Maragni told me once that for a while, British Army blades were being very strenuously tested, every one, as they came into service, to assure quality. They passed the test but went on to fail in use. The severity of the testing had damaged them

Possibly, but not necessarily. Swords can fail in any number of ways due to either a single overloading or cumulative wear and tear. Also the proof tests were by no means exact replicas of all the loads that could be expected in service. A good many failures occurred at the tang, when the blade encountered severe resistance, as when hit by another weapon; Very hard to proof test for - A common cause for failure at this point was a sharp corner, as opposed to a well rounded blend in, where the tang met the blade. A crack would start growing at the said corner. Pre assembly visual inspection would have been the better way to go. Also some tangs were ridiculously weak and would fail the moment that the hilt developed some play.

Also those proof tests were by no means all that thorough. I have a Brit sabre that has the proof stamp, yet the blade has a large forging flaw and have seen others obviously only nominally tested : They were so badly heat treated that they bent at the slightest flexing - Paid off inspectors?

It is also interesting to consider what blades have survived in good numbers versus those once very common but now very scarce. Odd specialized specimens were possibly less likely to be "used up" or perhaps saved as a curiosity while some mainline medieval forms that continued in use for a very long time must have been pretty much exhausted as they are quite scarce in surviving material.

I often wondered about this myself. Perhaps some blades lapsed into obsolescence due to the onset of better designs and as such were retired before badly damaged and ended up on the walls of the rich. Also what was retained in collections, probably reflected a predisposition towards what looked good, as opposed to the desire provide a historical record for later day hoplologists.

Cheers
Chris