Moro shield

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by kino

Nice shield.
What makes you think it's Moro?

Kino,

I am not an expert in this particular variety of shield. However three experts I know all agreed that it was an "early, rare, Moro shield." I trust these men implicitly.

Kino, you know at least one of them well and have already talked with him about this. Actually you know some other really neat people well also.

I do not like to spread around names without their permission though I am happy to share the knowledge as long as they have not asked me to keep it myself. I believe that knowledge is free and belongs to everyone, but I have to keep my word.

I felt that I needed to move quickly to acquire it and do not have the detail information about why they felt it is a "rare, early Moro shield," but they have advised me well in the past and I trust that this is so.

As I have mentioned in the past, I correspond with a lot of experts who help me build my collection. Personally I am more of a generalist than a detail guy.

I often find something that gives me a feeling to acquire, run it by a few good people in that field and then if I and they have good feeling about the price, I acquire it.

In holding this piece I have a very good feeling of quality and age. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I have been traveling, meeting museum curators and collectors and handling a lot of good pieces, trying to develop my "eye."

I like to study a culture in depth, as much as I can from home -- I am putting my affairs in order to be able to travel and actually see some of these places and meet friends I am developing all over the world.

This has been my dream since I began collecting a few years ago. I am close to achieving this goal.

The people on this Forum have been a great help and I look forward to meeting you in Belgium, Philippines, Borneo, Beijing, Paris, UK, New Zealand and other places.

I post items both to share he beauty of these various cultures and also to find out more about them myself. This is why I ask for “comments.”

Guys, to me it is not so much the weapons and trappings that interest me as it is the people.

And I intend for the pieces I have collected to one day return to their homelands. I feel that this is proper and right. I constantly seek out guardians that will take over their care when I am gone.

Now don’t start lining up now! I have a few years left.

All in all we are merely temporary custodians of these objects. They were here a long time before any of us were born and with proper custodial care they will be here a long time after we are gone.

So again I ask for comments.

And I hope that I have answered your question, Kino about why I think it is a Moro shield.

[Lew]

Bill take a look at this shield?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Handmade-African...QQcmdZViewItem


Lew

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Bill take a look at this shield?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Handmade-African...QQcmdZViewItem


Lew

very similar. Wish I had seen it on eBay before it closed.

[Dajak]

Hi Bill do you have the book shields from Prestel
take a look on page 132 pic 66
not an moro shield experts not always on the right side


What make some one an expert Bill ???

regards Ben

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

What make some one an expert Bill ???

regards Ben

Hi Ben,

To me an expert is someone who has studied a subject in depth and over a period of time, and is regarded as having knowledge by others in their field.

There are many people who call themselves "expert" who have only studied a subject a short time, but really have no depth of knowledge because they jump from one obsession to another without really ever paying the price to actually learn.

People who call themselves "expert" are usually not experts. They try to take bitter joy in deriding others to cover their lack of knowedge. They Sometimes even hide behind other people because they know direct and open communication will show their personal ignorance and insecurities.

True experts never really feel a need to brag as they are comfortable in their understanding.

I admit that I am no expert except in real estate investing. I have been doing this for 41 years. But even so, I still hire experts to advise me in specific matters like constantly changing tax laws, international banking, demographics and other business matters.

I enjoy learning and appreciate collecting ethnographic objects. Sure, I will buy some things that are not authentic. So what? I consider these things learning experiences, I would rather make mistakes and learn than just try to build myself up by running other people down.

I like my little shield and thank you for your comments and reference material. I will buy the book you recommend and study it.

Maybe the shield is Moro, maybe it is something else. I know that three men, well regarded in this field think that it is Moro. I really don't know. What I do know is that I like it and that is good enough for me.

I apologize for letting this conversation stray into more personal and social issues. These really are more appropriate to other forums. I think that we are here in this forum to discuss ethnographic weapons.

I will try to limit myself to this and offer to discuss other issues in private emails. If you all like, I will just post pictures of acquisitions and ask for comments.

Very truly yours,
Bill Marsh

[Dajak]

Hi Bill I am collecting more than 30 years
have a lot off books that I am study
see a lot off weapons did visit a lot off museums
but that does not make me an expert.
But someone that can recognise weapons even it is an mandau an pakayun
or an moro kris or an dajak shield .
And that is where the forum is for if you not sure you can ask the forum members.
And not to get upsett if it is something different about what you think about
it is .
Even I make mistakes in buying weapons.

The book from the USA National museum Bulletin 137 from1926 may also be fine to get .

Regards, Ben

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill I am collecting more than 30 years
have a lot off books that I am study
see a lot off weapons did visit a lot off museums
but that does not make me an expert.
But someone that can recognise weapons even it is an mandau an pakayun
or an moro kris or an dajak shield .
And that is where the forum is for if you not sure you can ask the forum members.
And not to get upsett if it is something different about what you think about
it is .
Even I make mistakes in buying weapons.

Regards, Ben

Ben,

I appreciate your calm comments and you are right about this Forum! This is why I always ask for comments.

As I said, it is fine with me if I post a piece and someone says it is something else. It may be! This is one of the ways I learn. I like learning. Making mistakes and learning from them is one of the ways we learn!

Comments from Forum members may be right and they may be wrong. The books may be right and they may be wrong. Even curators of Museums may be right and they may be wrong. The fun is in the interchange. Getting to know people. Talking openly and freely --- AND respecting other peoples' viewpoints.

I am offended when other people's viewpoints are not respected.

But on experts. For example I know a woman who grew up in Burkina Faso. She was well educated in the artifacts, the religions, the politics, the art, the history of Burkina Faso. She, to me is an expert in pieces from BF. She has multiple degrees and a well-known depth of knowledge about Burkina Faso. She is the Curator of African Art at a well-known Museum.

I saw a marvelous crocodile mask from Burkina Faso. I really liked it though it was very expensive. She looked at it for me and said it was one of the finest examples of their art she had seen. She said that the price was good. I bought it. It is about five feet long.

I showed her another Burkina Faso mask from another dealer. He wanted about 1/20th the cost of the crocodile mask. She looked at it and said it was recent, but a fair represntation of how this type of mask should look.

My first criteria is that I like something. If it is an expensive piece, I have people who know the field look at it and then decide if I want to commit the money.

This is how I use experts. And I check out the "experts" before I consider them worth trusting. Through my busiiness contacts I can check credentials on almost anyone.

One of the great frustrations in email communication is that it is easy to misunderstand the other person. The majority of our human interpersonal communications is body language, tonality and tempo. The actual words make up less than 10% of our communication and that 10% is all we have here in emails. Well maybe capital letters and smilies!

Add to the above, there are a lot of people here from other countries for whom English is not their usual language of communication. I greatly respect these people for coming here and sharing. I would not even try to go to one of their Forums and try to post in their language.

The key word to me is "respect."

While I love the pieces we collect on this Forum, well most of them, the important thing to me is the people here. through this Forum I am developing relationships all over the world.

Yourself for example. You have been collecting 30 years! This is marvelous! I will make it a priority to come visit you someday. I also greatly value your respectful manner.

I have seen some of your pieces and, personally, I would consider you an expert, Ben. You really know your area. You have some great pieces! You have spent the time to learn. That is obvious even to a neophyte like me! If I had a chance to buy a pakayun, I might ask your opinion.

I will send you a private email to discuss another issue.

Thanking you for your consideration in these matters,

Bill