It's a shamshir?

Valjhun · 12th September 2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

The top part of the blade (farthest away from the hilt) has the shape of a kilij, though an earlier form. I might call this a kilij.

Yes it has a double edge but, a true kilij is never grooved SUCH way. That blade looks more like one of thoose mounted on Sinai Bedouin swords and sometimes even on Nimchas. I agree with TVV that the blade might be European manufacture.

Yes, Flavio, it is a quite nice blade and nice crossguard, but I dont like the horn grip, wich it coukd be recent, especially the excessivelly downturned piece of it without any silver top and it seems that there never been one. Overall looks also too simple for a quality Syrian manufacture. I was intented to bid, but as a wise man said, one has to set his priorities.

S.Al-Anizi · 12th September 2006, 10:06 PM

Hi,

I agree with TVV, that hilt is most likely Syrian, although the blade is likely to be european, or, a local blade. Although I would support european manufacture, of the type called majjari between the bedouins.

ariel · 13th September 2006, 12:45 AM

The handle is quite strange, obviously replacement (and a clumsy one). The silver wire is wrapped unter the langet, whereas it should cover it.
As to the name.... Kilij (Kilic) is a generic Turkish word for a sword; just like "saif" is a generic Arabic one for same. My guess that a Persian would call any curved saber "shamshir", and the Ottoman Turk would call it "Kilic ajemi". Indo-Persian " Kilij"-type swords (with pronounced Yelman) were called Gaddara. Sword styles were so intermingled in that area, that it is often difficult to figure out the name: it probably depended more on the locality of the manufacture/usage and the nationality/ language of the user.
Short curved dagger would be called Jambiya in Western Arabia, Khanjar in Eastern Arabia, Koummya by the Moroccans, Shibriya by the Palestinian Arabs and Bebut by the Caucasians. Jim McDougall often brings an amusing example of us calling straight Sudanese swords "Kaskara", which would confuse any Sudanese: for them it is a "Saif". Indonesian islands have different names for perfectly similar swords/daggers.
There are far more languages/cultures than possible forms of the blades..... It makes life interesting and we can throw around fancy terminology to impress the "outsiders"

Flavio · 13th September 2006, 12:49 AM

Thank you very much, guys

12th September 2006, 10:06 PM	#2
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Hi, I agree with TVV, that hilt is most likely Syrian, although the blade is likely to be european, or, a local blade. Although I would support european manufacture, of the type called majjari between the bedouins.

13th September 2006, 12:45 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The handle is quite strange, obviously replacement (and a clumsy one). The silver wire is wrapped unter the langet, whereas it should cover it. As to the name.... Kilij (Kilic) is a generic Turkish word for a sword; just like "saif" is a generic Arabic one for same. My guess that a Persian would call any curved saber "shamshir", and the Ottoman Turk would call it "Kilic ajemi". Indo-Persian " Kilij"-type swords (with pronounced Yelman) were called Gaddara. Sword styles were so intermingled in that area, that it is often difficult to figure out the name: it probably depended more on the locality of the manufacture/usage and the nationality/ language of the user. Short curved dagger would be called Jambiya in Western Arabia, Khanjar in Eastern Arabia, Koummya by the Moroccans, Shibriya by the Palestinian Arabs and Bebut by the Caucasians. Jim McDougall often brings an amusing example of us calling straight Sudanese swords "Kaskara", which would confuse any Sudanese: for them it is a "Saif". Indonesian islands have different names for perfectly similar swords/daggers. There are far more languages/cultures than possible forms of the blades..... It makes life interesting and we can throw around fancy terminology to impress the "outsiders"

13th September 2006, 12:49 AM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you very much, guys