Zulu Patina question? Looks very recent.

Bill M · 11th September 2006, 09:20 PM

"Offered for sale from my private collection of Zulu artefacts is this superb top-quality antique Zulu walking stick (called ‘iqhabanga’ by the Zulus). This iqhabanga in my opinion is the best I am currently offering on eBay, and the best you will have seen on sale for some time. I paid a hefty 3 figure sum for it, it is such a good quality piece.

"The stick I would guess dates to the mid 1900’s. It has been carved from a single piece of dark hardwood by a highly-skilled Zulu craftsman. This stick was found in a Zulu hut at Hlomo Hlomo, about 35km north-west of Nongoma, Zululand, South Africa.

"The stick has a small knobkerrie-style head, below which is a carved and fluted section in the Zulu ‘amasumpa’ (warts) style. The thin haft is carved perfectly straight with a smooth polished finish, and tapers to a point at the base of the stick. Top quality, lovely patina and feel to the whole piece, which is also well-balanced."

Same patina as the axe. Also pristine.

Would really appreciate knowing more about this "Zulu Patina."

I am trying to believe that he is for real. He has a good reputation, but I don't understand this black patina.

I have bought several other pieces from him that he says are lesser pieces and they do have nice brown wear patina.

Tim Simmons · 11th September 2006, 09:30 PM

Bill. I think I agree with your concerns. 1900 is not really Zulu wars though I do believe without searching one of Nelson Mandela's ancestors led a revolt around 1913. Compere the wood with that last stick I post. I hate to agree with you but I do feel the same.

Lew · 12th September 2006, 02:11 AM

Bill

Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner. Attached is an old Songye axe that was encrusted with some real nasty dirt and grime it has a similar patina to your axe but this is after I cleaned and waxed it.

Lew

Ian · 12th September 2006, 02:19 AM

Bill:

That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways?

Ian.

Bill M · 12th September 2006, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Bill:

That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways?

Ian.

Ian,

You're not in England are you?

I can see marks between the handle and the checkering that looks as though it was turned on a lathe.

This is a mystery to me. On one hand everything points to this being made yesterday with modern tools. However the seller seems really solid and it would be even stranger for a faker to make something so obviously new-looking. A good faker would have wonderful wear patina.

Do like the African traders and give the piece to a kid with some steel wool and a can of Johnson's paste Wax. It would look a hundred years old in a few days.

Lew · 12th September 2006, 02:43 AM

Bill

The axe handle has age cracks and is consistant with other older knobkerries and axe handles that I have seen. Does the axe handle have a smokey smell to it like burnt wood? As far as lathes go I have a pic of a Sudanese wood worker using a lathe circa 1900.

Lew

The Double D · 12th September 2006, 06:32 AM

I have to agree with the perception the walking stick is fairly new. I to see lathe marks. I also think I see glue by the knob.

He paid three figures? Lets I exchanged Rand yesterday at 7.36 per dollar. So lets say R150, that's three figures, $20.38.

The attached picture is of a milkpail my wife got. It has that dark finish also. The darkness is supossed to come from the smoke in the rondaval.

Notice the surface finish of the milk pail. It's rough and marked and not polished as these two item are.

I think the axe has been refinished. Authenticity, will have come from some one more knowledgeable.

The Walking stick is nice but has some quality that says new made. The checkering should be worn or even damaged if old.

Ian · 12th September 2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Ian,

You're not in England are you?

No Bill. I'm in Minnesota. Originally from Australia.

Ian.

Andrew · 12th September 2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

No Bill. I'm in Minnesota. Originally from Australia.

Ian.

Either way, you talk funny.

Bill M · 12th September 2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Bill

Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner.

Lew

How does the axe acquire the patina? Or the stick for that matter? There is little wear on the axe handle.

The stick looks very new. Do the Zulu just keep these in a cupboard while the wood turns black?

I don't understand. But I would like to

thanks for the reply Lew.

11th September 2006, 09:20 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Another Zulu piece, same seller "Offered for sale from my private collection of Zulu artefacts is this superb top-quality antique Zulu walking stick (called ‘iqhabanga’ by the Zulus). This iqhabanga in my opinion is the best I am currently offering on eBay, and the best you will have seen on sale for some time. I paid a hefty 3 figure sum for it, it is such a good quality piece. "The stick I would guess dates to the mid 1900’s. It has been carved from a single piece of dark hardwood by a highly-skilled Zulu craftsman. This stick was found in a Zulu hut at Hlomo Hlomo, about 35km north-west of Nongoma, Zululand, South Africa. "The stick has a small knobkerrie-style head, below which is a carved and fluted section in the Zulu ‘amasumpa’ (warts) style. The thin haft is carved perfectly straight with a smooth polished finish, and tapers to a point at the base of the stick. Top quality, lovely patina and feel to the whole piece, which is also well-balanced." Same patina as the axe. Also pristine. Would really appreciate knowing more about this "Zulu Patina." I am trying to believe that he is for real. He has a good reputation, but I don't understand this black patina. I have bought several other pieces from him that he says are lesser pieces and they do have nice brown wear patina. Attached Images

12th September 2006, 02:11 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner. Attached is an old Songye axe that was encrusted with some real nasty dirt and grime it has a similar patina to your axe but this is after I cleaned and waxed it. Lew Attached Images

12th September 2006, 02:43 AM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill The axe handle has age cracks and is consistant with other older knobkerries and axe handles that I have seen. Does the axe handle have a smokey smell to it like burnt wood? As far as lathes go I have a pic of a Sudanese wood worker using a lathe circa 1900. Lew Attached Images

11th September 2006, 09:30 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	Bill. I think I agree with your concerns. 1900 is not really Zulu wars though I do believe without searching one of Nelson Mandela's ancestors led a revolt around 1913. Compere the wood with that last stick I post. I hate to agree with you but I do feel the same.

12th September 2006, 02:19 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,401	Bill: That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways? Ian.

12th September 2006, 06:32 AM	#7
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	I have to agree with the perception the walking stick is fairly new. I to see lathe marks. I also think I see glue by the knob. He paid three figures? Lets I exchanged Rand yesterday at 7.36 per dollar. So lets say R150, that's three figures, $20.38. The attached picture is of a milkpail my wife got. It has that dark finish also. The darkness is supossed to come from the smoke in the rondaval. Notice the surface finish of the milk pail. It's rough and marked and not polished as these two item are. I think the axe has been refinished. Authenticity, will have come from some one more knowledgeable. The Walking stick is nice but has some quality that says new made. The checkering should be worn or even damaged if old.