Definitive Warfare

mross · 10th August 2006, 05:50 PM

Can I steer this back toward the discussion of twisted core swords? I accepted Willie W's statement that twisted cores where reserved for panglimas based on what I know of metallurgical technique. It may or may not be correct but it is an interesting hypothesis. As I understand the Moro’s they where very aware of position. I believe in the world of the keris there where certain attributes of it that where reserved. Is this correct? Is it not unreasonable to assume that aspects of a kris could follow these same guidelines? That having been said; pattern welding is not an easy task. It requires great skill and time to get the welds correct. Much more so then simple laminated welding. In laminated welding you are folding like steel over and welding it to itself. In pattern welding you are welding unlike metal together. So making the twisted core would be a time consuming and material consuming process. That means expensive. The twisted core would not be what a middle or warrior class Moro could afford. So that bumps it up to the higher ups. I have been collecting and reading about Moro swords for a bit. I have seen only a very few twisted core blades, most of them here and one blade on Erik’s site. Has anyone done a study to see what aspects if any of the sword where reserved and for what rank? From Cato one gets the impression that gold was for the Sultan. There is also a bit of conflict here because I understand the Prophet Mohammed was against gold ornamentation for men. So this seems to me an interesting area to look into and one that could expand our love and appreciation for the Moro sword.

Rick · 10th August 2006, 09:59 PM

To help bring this thread back to the twist core discussion I present to you a blade of very complex twist core construction recently polished by Phil Tom .

BSMStar · 10th August 2006, 10:37 PM

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you find these? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm better now.

mross · 10th August 2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you find these? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm better now.

What he said!!

Rick · 10th August 2006, 11:00 PM

Kakatua
You'd cry even more if you knew what I paid for this 'European Sword' .

Ahh , the good old days of Ebay .

MABAGANI · 11th August 2006, 12:07 AM

Is there a similar pattern among keris, my first thought are stars...

Rick · 11th August 2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

Is there a similar pattern among keris, my first thought are stars...

This keris pamor is kind of in the ballpark; I've forgotten the name of this pamor much to my shame .

What I think we're looking at on the Moro piece are three separate twisted cores welded together as they merge past the sorsoran and run down to the tip. Then a layer welded edge has been applied to the outside of the core.

BSMStar · 11th August 2006, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Kakatua
You'd cry even more if you knew what I paid for this 'European Sword' .

Ahh , the good old days of Ebay .

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

nechesh · 10th August 2006, 10:40 PM

That's a beauty Rick. I hope you are pleased with the polishing job. I don't remember the hilt on this one. Could we see a shot of that as well?

kai · 11th August 2006, 12:41 AM

(no link needed - didn't saw the pic of the hilt on page 2)

10th August 2006, 05:50 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	twisted core Can I steer this back toward the discussion of twisted core swords? I accepted Willie W's statement that twisted cores where reserved for panglimas based on what I know of metallurgical technique. It may or may not be correct but it is an interesting hypothesis. As I understand the Moro’s they where very aware of position. I believe in the world of the keris there where certain attributes of it that where reserved. Is this correct? Is it not unreasonable to assume that aspects of a kris could follow these same guidelines? That having been said; pattern welding is not an easy task. It requires great skill and time to get the welds correct. Much more so then simple laminated welding. In laminated welding you are folding like steel over and welding it to itself. In pattern welding you are welding unlike metal together. So making the twisted core would be a time consuming and material consuming process. That means expensive. The twisted core would not be what a middle or warrior class Moro could afford. So that bumps it up to the higher ups. I have been collecting and reading about Moro swords for a bit. I have seen only a very few twisted core blades, most of them here and one blade on Erik’s site. Has anyone done a study to see what aspects if any of the sword where reserved and for what rank? From Cato one gets the impression that gold was for the Sultan. There is also a bit of conflict here because I understand the Prophet Mohammed was against gold ornamentation for men. So this seems to me an interesting area to look into and one that could expand our love and appreciation for the Moro sword.

10th August 2006, 09:59 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	To help bring this thread back to the twist core discussion I present to you a blade of very complex twist core construction recently polished by Phil Tom . Attached Images

10th August 2006, 11:00 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	The Hilt Kakatua You'd cry even more if you knew what I paid for this 'European Sword' . Ahh , the good old days of Ebay . Attached Images

11th August 2006, 12:41 AM	#10
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	(no link needed - didn't saw the pic of the hilt on page 2) Last edited by kai; 11th August 2006 at 12:48 AM. Reason: pic of hilt already posted

10th August 2006, 10:37 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How do you find these? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm better now.

11th August 2006, 12:07 AM	#6
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Is there a similar pattern among keris, my first thought are stars...

10th August 2006, 10:40 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	That's a beauty Rick. I hope you are pleased with the polishing job. I don't remember the hilt on this one. Could we see a shot of that as well?