Sumatran keris for discussion

[VVV]

Thanks for the new link,

I have seen a blade with resembling greneng before.
It was an old blade, with newer hilt, but it is not longer in my collection.
The Wrangka also looked similar to yours and I considered it to be from Minangkabau.
The Dauns reminds me of Gayo. Maybe some influence?

Unfortunately I don't have it around and the pictures I have kept aren't as good as yours.
Maybe these could give you an idea?
I don't want to show the complete Keris because it's not mine anymore.

Michael

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by VVV

I have seen a blade with resembling greneng before.

Lol... I know... because it is in my collection now.
The thing is, I don't like the hulu and pendongkok... so I'm temporarily using another until I could get a suitable replacement.

[VVV]

Ha, ha,

I didn't like those either. That's why I sold it.
I think your idea of switching them is much better because the blade and sheath is really nice.

Michael

[Alam Shah]

Hi all,
Below is the picture of the blade. Let's discuss...
This is the 1st time I saw this type of greneng-works.
What does these represents?
Any ideas, suggestions, opinions...etc.



The gandik area is also unique.

[Alam Shah]

Pamor Lidi Sebatang, from the tip to one third of the blade.
Don't know whether it qualify as this. Normally for this pamor, it extends from the base to the tip of the blade. In Javanese it is known as pamor Sada Saler or Sada Sakler also known as pamor BantuBari.

[kai]

Sorry for joining this thread late!

I'm really stumped by this one, too. I think the sturdy blade has very gracefully flowing lines and really nice scroll work; the knob-like kembang kacang became more visible after thorough cleaning and also the unique ricikan details add to its distinguished appearance. I'm at a loss how old this blade might be - could be 300 years (unlikely since the blade is very well preserved) to 3 years (ok, Michael had it a bit longer than that I guess) as far as I'm concerned. If pressed, I'd probably tend towards 20th century although the general workmanship is better than commonly seen on (genuine) recent Keris.

I'm adding one of Michael's pics showing the original hulu and pendongkok - those fittings really point towards a Minang Kabau origin IMHO. I agree that these are inferior and really need to be replaced with nicer fittings. I'm also not sure about the wrangka - those necessary new/restored fittings were my main reason to give it to Singapore were finding suitable good quality fittings is so much easier than in Europe or the US. I couldn't identify the utilized wood, too. BTW, what was traditionally used to stain wood if deemed preferable?

I believe this blade looks better (best?) in Minang Kabau fittings and would love to see pics of the completed piece. Go for it and win next years Keris Competition with it, Alam Shah!

Regards,
Kai

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by kai

I'm also not sure about the wrangka - those necessary new/restored fittings were my main reason to give it to Singapore were finding suitable good quality fittings is so much easier than in Europe or the US. I couldn't identify the utilized wood, too. ?

Lol... Good call to 'give' it to Singapore. I'll update once I've got the piece the way I wanted it to look. May take sometime, though. Imo, the wood looks like stained 'young' kemuning wood.

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, what was traditionally used to stain wood if deemed preferable?

In Sumatra, 'sapan' or dark-stained finish were desire-able, but personally, I think it's a way to 'hide' low quality wood and to make it more resistable to the elements. The better ones tend to display its natural wood grains, but as always, there's no hard and fast rules here. Anything goes... a matter of personal preference.

Originally Posted by kai

I believe this blade looks better (best?) in Minang Kabau fittings and would love to see pics of the completed piece. Go for it and win next years Keris Competition with it, Alam Shah!

I tend to agree, I'll stick to Minangkabau fittings, if the origin could not be decided or if we cannot come to a consensus... As for the competition, lol... I don't have any intention of submitting this, with what I've seen others are acquiring.

[kai]

Pamor Lidi Sebatang, from the tip to one third of the blade.
Don't know whether it qualify as this.

I couldn't really ascertain any welding lines after cleaning; the very tip (from my memory about 1 inch or 3 cm) appear darker - possibly from tempering?

Maybe some polishing and staining might give more information how this blade was forged and tempered?

Regards,
Kai

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by kai

If you're not too strict, the first greneng (downwards from the tip of the blade) might represent a bird's head (most likely an eagle?); of course, this is just one of several possible interpretations.

The rest (or possibly all) of the greneng looks like foliage-like decoration to me.

A good interpretation... thanks.

[kai]

Below is the picture of the blade. Let's discuss...
This is the 1st time I saw this type of greneng-works.
What does these represents?

If you're not too strict, the first greneng (downwards from the tip of the blade) might represent a bird's head (most likely an eagle?); of course, this is just one of several possible interpretations.

The rest (or possibly all) of the greneng looks like foliage-like decoration to me.

Regards,
Kai