Sudanese Arm Dagger For Comment

[Mark]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Something I've wanted to mention for some time, and now seems to have "come up" is that iron and ironworking (probably due to weapon associations, but perhaps to use as money as well) and the blacksmith/iron god are all commonly associated with royalty in Africa, and I'm noting that nations with prohibitions against working or touching iron may tend to be nations traditionally free from kings and structured governments (thinking here of Tuaregs and Massai; other examples? counter-examples? Input?)

Here is an interesting contrast from the Shan states in Burma. Among the Shan, blacksmithing is considered peasant's work and is beneath any one of noble blood, or who aspires to nobility. The Shan hold that silver working is proper for nobility, however. I expect that it is due to iron-working being seen as "dirty," what with the sweat, scale, charcoal and such, while silver-working is more "dignified" and artistic.

I know that at least one reason why iron working is given such a high place in many societies is the importance that weapons played, and having a blacksmith was an important advantage. They used to get kidnapped a lot in West Africa apparently, and taken prisoner in battle rather than killed. I would guess that also the fact that is is a developed and somewhat arcane art, turning a lump of something into a useful and beautiful item, adds to the mystique.

[tom hyle]

I've seen them worn on the outside of the left arm, with the belt passing around the narrow part above the bicep/tricep mass, and the tip hanging downward in typical fashion.

[Lew]

Hi Tom

A few months ago I saw one of those 19 century orientalist paintings of a Sudanese warrior on ebay and he was wearing a large Tebu style dagger on his left forearm hilt faced down. The scabbard was Tuereg looking with a round brass arm band hold it in place. Unfortunately I was stupid and the auction ended before I was able to bid on it By the way I just picked up another large karra dagger like the last one I posted it also has incriptions on the blade and I will post some pictures as soon as I can.


Lew

[tom hyle]

I have read of them worn this way, on the forearm, supposedly within the sleeve of a robe, and I have seen it in illustrations, but I don't think I've seen it in a photograph. Perhaps the fashion has changed over the years, too?

[Kamil]

I have heard the same, but what worries me is that all examples I have seen have rather loose sheaths; it would be not very practical to wear the knife with its hilt faced down...
BTW: Spring's African Arms and Armour, plate 3: isn't it a Tebu knife attached to the upper part of the sword's sheath?

[Lew]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

I've seen them worn on the outside of the left arm, with the belt passing around the narrow part above the bicep/tricep mass, and the tip hanging downward in typical fashion.

Hi Tom

I found a black and white print of Sudanese warrior notice the position of ther dagger.

Lew

[Conogre]

Kamil, you're 100% correct about that being a tebu dagger affixed to the outside of the takouba scabbard worn by the Taureg in the photograph on plate 3 in Spring's....I posted a close up of that same picture several years ago in the old forum and even have mine displayed that way as a great space saver **grin**....that little leather strp fits the scabbard much better than my arm!!!!
The only knives I've seen with the wider bands have all been teleks, as opposed to the old illustrations with it on other style knives.
Heck, at that time the style that started this thread were still being attributed to having been derived from German daggers, a la Stone.
Mike

[derek]

This is elvoving in to the official African arm dagger thread, so I'm posting mine here. Also, I'll repeat my question here: Can anyone share a good resource for info on these styles? A book that (at least partly) focuses on N. African daggers?
-d