Opinions: large Kris w/ intricate inlay - Page 2

JeffS · 18th April 2026, 06:57 AM

Out of curiosity, how do you guys have access to X-ray for tasks like this?

Ian · 18th April 2026, 01:24 PM

Jeff, I have an arrangement with a friend who is a veterinarian. I cannot generate the ray energy that was needed to produce Rick's picture. The unit I use is only a small one. Rick's image looks like it came from a more powerful metallurgical unit that can detect fine cracks in metal.

Ian · 18th April 2026, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Now this comment is really interesting (at least to me).
How to interpret this has me more than a bit stumped.

Same area, same forging fault; same Smith ?

Rick, it would not surprise if that were the case.

another_rick · 18th April 2026, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS

Out of curiosity, how do you guys have access to X-ray for tasks like this?

I asked my chiropractor and veterinarian. Both were willing, I picked chiro out of convenience. The x-ray machine was old but I didn't ask details. I also ran XRF for metallurgical info - just asked my local metal recycling facility.

another_rick · 18th April 2026, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Rick, it would not surprise if that were the case.

Would the same smith make blades this different? Welded tang, no separate gangya, also notice even the tang's more irregular & crude

Ian · 19th April 2026, 03:21 AM

Another-rick,

Good points. I don't know the answer and I doubt we ever will unless someone comes along to say that only one panday made these blades with naga down the middle.

Perhaps panday and those doing the carving had different grades of quality they were willing to make for their customers. I'm thinking that tools and weapons often share similar blade profiles, with weapons getting more attention to details and decoration.

Having been made a century or so ago, there may not be anyone today who knows who made them.

Regards, Ian

Ian · 19th April 2026, 05:28 AM

Here is a cropped and enlarged picture of one posted above by Gustav. It is a very nice blade and seems in good condition. In looking closely at the gangya, I can see three horizontal grooves engraved on the gandik side of the gangya: two are adjacent to the cocor and one is just above the lower lip of the lambe gaja. If a line of separation is present, it would run between the two lips of the lambe gaja. There is a wide opening and groove there, but like the other grooves on the gangya, it only runs to the unusual baca baca, None of these grooves, or any other line, is visible on the greneng side of the baca baca. Even on the most closely fitted examples, there is usually a faint separation line to be seen. Again, we need to have an X-ray to know for sure, but this looks likes another example that does not have a separate gangya.
.

Gustav · 19th April 2026, 09:05 PM

The picture I posted is of a Kris which belongs to Spunjer, Spunjer has stated it has a separate gangya, and, knowing his experience with Kris, I trust him on this.

Amuk Murugul · 19th April 2026, 10:28 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=41

another_rick · 20th April 2026, 08:44 PM

Hi Amuk,
Thank you for the link and info. It led me, at last, to the specs (below) for the kris that Gustav cited in post #21 - yours, I take it.
Mine is a little shorter (57 cm & 11 waves) but the overall construction and inlay logic seem very similar.
What especially caught my attention: both seem unusually (?) stout at 1.5 and 1.6 cm.

Curious about your opinion on the comparison and any thoughts you're willing to share.

https://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost....40&postcount=7
Name: Ki Pakpak
Cat: BadjoNaga
Type: SaptaPratala
Wave: 13
Blade: 60 cm. 1.5 cm. thick
Age: c.1900
Origin: Mindanaoe
Comment: Silver inlay along length of blade on both sides.

One more photo, in case it's helful:

JeffS · Yesterday, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by another_rick

I asked my chiropractor and veterinarian. Both were willing, I picked chiro out of convenience. The x-ray machine was old but I didn't ask details. I also ran XRF for metallurgical info - just asked my local metal recycling facility.

Can one of the handheld XRF be used to get composition of studs, bands, inlays and other small components?

another_rick · Yesterday, 04:48 PM

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Most handheld XRF units have 2 beam diameter options; Standard (8-9mm) and Small (3mm). I've heard of handheld units with Ø1mm options but never seen them in the wild...
However, even if the beam is too large to isolate a feature and adjacent metal contaminates the scan, you can still infer composition and proportions by comparing it to a clean scan of the adjacent metal. (Hope that makes sense.)
Side notes: Make sure the XRF is set to General Metals mode, not Precious Metals or something else. Scan times should be 10-20 seconds.

Cheers!

19th April 2026, 05:28 AM	#37
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,695	Here is a cropped and enlarged picture of one posted above by Gustav. It is a very nice blade and seems in good condition. In looking closely at the gangya, I can see three horizontal grooves engraved on the gandik side of the gangya: two are adjacent to the cocor and one is just above the lower lip of the lambe gaja. If a line of separation is present, it would run between the two lips of the lambe gaja. There is a wide opening and groove there, but like the other grooves on the gangya, it only runs to the unusual baca baca, None of these grooves, or any other line, is visible on the greneng side of the baca baca. Even on the most closely fitted examples, there is usually a faint separation line to be seen. Again, we need to have an X-ray to know for sure, but this looks likes another example that does not have a separate gangya. . Attached Images

19th April 2026, 09:05 PM	#38
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,326	The picture I posted is of a Kris which belongs to Spunjer, Spunjer has stated it has a separate gangya, and, knowing his experience with Kris, I trust him on this. Last edited by Ian; 20th April 2026 at 02:42 AM. Reason: Unnecessary comment

20th April 2026, 08:44 PM	#40
another_rick Member Join Date: Jan 2026 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 11	Hi Amuk, Thank you for the link and info. It led me, at last, to the specs (below) for the kris that Gustav cited in post #21 - yours, I take it. Mine is a little shorter (57 cm & 11 waves) but the overall construction and inlay logic seem very similar. What especially caught my attention: both seem unusually (?) stout at 1.5 and 1.6 cm. Curious about your opinion on the comparison and any thoughts you're willing to share. https://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost....40&postcount=7 Name: Ki Pakpak Cat: BadjoNaga Type: SaptaPratala Wave: 13 Blade: 60 cm. 1.5 cm. thick Age: c.1900 Origin: Mindanaoe Comment: Silver inlay along length of blade on both sides. One more photo, in case it's helful: Attached Images

18th April 2026, 06:57 AM	#31
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 457	Out of curiosity, how do you guys have access to X-ray for tasks like this?

18th April 2026, 01:24 PM	#32
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,695	Jeff, I have an arrangement with a friend who is a veterinarian. I cannot generate the ray energy that was needed to produce Rick's picture. The unit I use is only a small one. Rick's image looks like it came from a more powerful metallurgical unit that can detect fine cracks in metal.

19th April 2026, 03:21 AM	#36
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,695	Another-rick, Good points. I don't know the answer and I doubt we ever will unless someone comes along to say that only one panday made these blades with naga down the middle. Perhaps panday and those doing the carving had different grades of quality they were willing to make for their customers. I'm thinking that tools and weapons often share similar blade profiles, with weapons getting more attention to details and decoration. Having been made a century or so ago, there may not be anyone today who knows who made them. Regards, Ian

19th April 2026, 10:28 PM	#39
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 484	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=41

Yesterday, 04:48 PM	#42
another_rick Member Join Date: Jan 2026 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 11	Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Most handheld XRF units have 2 beam diameter options; Standard (8-9mm) and Small (3mm). I've heard of handheld units with Ø1mm options but never seen them in the wild... However, even if the beam is too large to isolate a feature and adjacent metal contaminates the scan, you can still infer composition and proportions by comparing it to a clean scan of the adjacent metal. (Hope that makes sense.) Side notes: Make sure the XRF is set to General Metals mode, not Precious Metals or something else. Scan times should be 10-20 seconds. Cheers!