12th-13th Century Jinete Swords?

[anoakenstaff]

Salaams, all.

I've been a lurker for a few years, and I wanted to make an account to ask about a couple things I thought were related enough to fit in one thread.

Firstly, what information do we have on jineta, or 'proto-jineta’ swords in the 1100s and 1200s? I know there’s very few surviving relevant swords for this period, including the ones Nicolle covers and the one in the ‘Identificacion de una espada jineta de guerra’ paper, but my knowledge is very lacking beyond the few papers, so I would love to know if there have been any other extants found, or more research published.

Secondly, I have been trying to write for a while on the sword found on this 13th-century French effigy of a knight of the d’Alluye family. While I have found some interesting similar features on European effigies or art (such as the pommel on the effigy of Hasculf de Subligny), the idea of this sword having been a jineta seems to have been raised and gone unanswered on the forum earlier, so I wanted to include that in case any forum members might have information that might relate this to a Spanish purchase or such. I’m particularly curious about the scabbard arrangement, I don't recall ever seeing anything quite like this before.

Photo from: https://www.metmuseum.org/perspectiv...ndering-knight

[Ian]

Hello anoakenstaff,

Welcome to the Forums here. Both of your questions relate to European arms in an historical context. I think you will find more information among those who frequent the European Armoury forum, so I'm transferring your request for information over there.

Regards,

Ian.

[Jim McDougall]

Just wanted to welcome you to the forum, and you have brought up a most esoteric and fascinating topic! While I cannot answer without further research at the moment, I just wanted to note I am most interested and will respond as I can. Meanwhile there are some here who have keen expertise, but the forum has been very quiet of late, so I dont want you to get discouraged and leave OK.

The fact that you mention Nicolle is a strong indicator you have already done serious research on this topic, so game on!

All best regards
Jim

[anoakenstaff]

Thank you for the warm welcome!

[Jim McDougall]

I am working on finding answers here, but still have to get to main references not at hand at the moment.
Apparently (per the link) the effigy which has the likeness of the sword in question was of a one of the warriors/knights of the d'Alluye family in a tomb in the Cistercian abbey of La Ciarte-Dieu in Touraine who lived 1248-1267.

As noted by Helmut Nickel (1991) the trilobate pommel is contrary to those of most European swords on these times, and the influence seems to come more likely from Chinese sources. At this point I am inclined to agree as Nickel was one of the top authorities (IMO) on these topics. Still there are always those anomalies which of course did occur.

The 'jinete' were of course cavalry, mounted warriors whose influence had come from Moroccan regions from the initial incursions of Muslim forces c. 711AD.
and situated primarily in al-Andalus Granada in SE Spain. The conflicts with Castilian forces known vaguely as the Reconquista began shortly later but did not reach notable traction until the 1200s.

While the 'jinete' style and influence was indeed Muslim and from these early warriors, it naturally impacted the forces of Spain. Ironically, despite the portrayal of El Cid (1943-1099) as the hero of the Reconquista in his time, like many crusaders, as a mercenary he fought on the side of Muslims at some points.

The Spanish forces used foreign mercenaries in their armies, and according to Arnold Blumberg, writing in "Medieval Warfare" ("The Hundred Years War in Spain" , Vol.3, #1, 2013, pp.18-21) the Christian leaders of Spain used foreign mercenaries, mostly from France, starting about late 11th c.

Given these circumstances, it does not seem that French mercenaries would have used 'Spanish' forms of weapon, however it would seem possible that they might have brought back Spanish types returning to France.
That leaves us trying to discover any examples of Spanish arms of the period in early 1200s which might have this trilobate pommel.

It seems there is an article by Nicolle, on two swords found in Gibraltar, which I am trying to locate, as well as his 2 volume reference. Im not sure Calvert ("Spanish Arms& Armor" would have anything).

Until later, great topic. Hope you're still here.

[Jim McDougall]

As expected, Calvert (1907) had nothing specific to Jineta swords, and the illustrations shown are of 'Hispano-Moresque' forms as termed by him . These are also termed Nasrid with reference to the Muslim dynasty of Granada 1232-1492.
This 'jineta' form is typically seen as with downturned quillons, often heavy and elaborate extending along upper part of blade, with pommels spherical or other singular shapes, not lobated.

It seems that the trilobate pommel on this French knights sword may be a holdover from the Frankish swords which of course prevailed through the Viking era, and are seen in variation on most Viking associated hilts. One reference notes that 'Frankish' swords typically had pommels of 3 to 5 rounded lobes in their pommels. While these gave way to the variations of brazil nut, tea-cosy etc of knightly swords of Middle Ages, in the Iberian Peninsula the elaborate Nasrid (jinete) type hilts became familiar.

I looked through "The Archaeology of Weapons" (E.Oakeshott, 1960) and while he thoroughly classified pommel types into what has become the guidelines for descriptions used, this trilobate form is not mentioned.
Type M however has the 5 lobed type listed as 1100-1325, and noted as the last survival of the 'Viking principle' of the lobed pommel (above lower guard).
This of course alludes to the 'Frankish' style noted of 3 to 5 lobes.

I read through "Two Swords from Gibraltar", David Nicolle (Gladius XXII, 2002, pp.147-200) which decscribes two swords of 12th c. found in "Martins Cave" by an archaeologist in 1867. These are noted as representative of the Islamic swords of Andalusian and Maghribi warriors of the 12th c. and both have hilts with spherical pommels and only slightly downturned quillons.

While Berber mercenaries brought their styles of arms and tactics to the Andalusian peninsula in the 11th and 12th centuries these precluded the defined 'jineta' styles etc. which apparently fully evolved much later.

The Nasrid swords with elaborate hilts and significant downturned quillons are actually derived from Ottoman and Mamluk sword hilts of 13th 14th c.

This tri lobed hilt on the French sword we are discussing does seem to be somewhat of an anomaly, as I went through the entire volume of line illustrations in the comprehensive "Arms and Armour of the Crusading era 1050-1350" David Nicolle, 1988, and cannot find any corresponding example.

As far as comparison to Nasrid (jinete) forms, the only thing close is the sword of St.Ferdinand of 13th c. which has a pommel which is somewhat trilobate in what has been termed a maple leaf shape. (see attached, #601).

With the description by Helmut Nickel, my only suggestion toward the comparison to Chinese influence would be the trilobate patterns seen in Tibetan swords' pommels, which could only tenuously compare to this triple SPHERE pattern. I cannot say I am familiar with any such type pommel in Chinese hilts, however the 'three' element is important in most of the major religion dogma.

[anoakenstaff]

Thank you very much for these resources! I really appreciate your help, I'll definitely grab the few I missed.

I have indeed read the Gibraltar paper. It is a great read.

As for Jean's sword: I would loathe to disagree with you, especially as I obviously respect your much greater knowledge, and especially as I am a fledgling researcher myself. However, I would like to raise some points of consideration, if I may.

I believe Helmut dismisses the possibility of the sword being European or Islamic far too quickly. Firstly, more to the point of jinetes and pre-jinete Islamic swords, and as Nicolle notes*- small guards with trilobate pommels are found in quite a number of Iberian depictions, Islamic or otherwise. Besides just the Andalusian example shown, trilobate pommels themselves apparently appear to a frequency enough in Spain for Oakeshott to note them in his typology as 'of a Spanish type' (type L). You might find more examples of Spanish triloabtes in, for example, BL Additional 11695 Beatus of Liebana (available on ManuscriptMiniatures).

(Though here I have to make a note that the pommel of the trefoil shape shows over and over again in other parts of Europe too, mainly France. I'll attach a particularly good example of a fleur-de-lis pommel from folio 024r of the KBR Ms.9961-62 Peterborough Psalter.)

The Met paper also claims that the wrapping of the hilt is atypical for European swords. This much is true. However, it does not appear that it is unprecedented. Besides the fact that the double-looping style does not appear on any of the (small number of) Chinese swords I have seen, it is actually found in Europe. I know of at least three examples, the most clear and relevant one being the effigy of a knight in San Lorenzo Maggiore, near 1300. You'll probably find him as 'Naples Knight A' on EffigiesandBrasses.com.

("As such they (small, curved guards) probably reflected Islamic Andalusian rather than Christian northern Spanish military styles, particularly as they are mostly on swords whose scabbards are carried on baldrics rather than sword-belts. In these manuscripts, however, the down-turned quillons are often associated with the clover-leaf or trilobate pommel rather than the spherical pommel of the Gibraltar sword.")

[midelburgo]

I remember vaguely the thread on that french sword.

The most informative paper on those swords is the article in Gladius by Nicolle on the two found in Gibraltar.

One of these battle swords is at Seville archeological museum.

In 2020, the Madrid National Arqueological Museum was able to mount an exposition on Spanish muslime metalwork, and it included four of the "pretty" XVth century ginetas.

From time to time a new sword in arqueological context appears in the newspapers, but you never heard again about it. Such was a case in 2025.

I remember some 12 years ago, a private person appeared with a war gineta XII-XIII century in the Esgrima Antigua forum. We tried he would report it to the authorities instead of selling it to a collector. I got some pictures, but we never heard anything anymore. I see now they must be in a backup disk.

About the belt-baldrick, this is something you see in Spanish medieval representations, and it has been commented by Ada Bruhm- Hoffmeyer in one of his volumes (The Sword in Spain, I , II).

There is an extant survivor, the sword of Sancho IV in Toledo cathedral. The belt is long enough and has eyelets, either to carry it as a belt or as a baldrick. This was usual for both moors or christians in Spain. I believe Oakeshot wrote on this sword.

[anoakenstaff]

Thank you very much, this is very interesting information.

Could I please ask if you could expand on the belt-baldric? What does Hoffmeyer say? I can't seem to find the books you mentioned there anywhere, sorry!