A New Idea re Weapons of Oceania and a Poll

[Ian]

I have been talking with the owner of this site, Dr Lee Jones, and the other Moderators about a new focus on weapons of the indigenous peoples of Australasia, Melanesia, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc., who make up the Pacific region referred to as Oceania. There is relatively little information about these weapons to be found on this Forum and not much more online.

My interest in raising this subject is that following my return to Australia in 2018, I have seen many more of these weapons and observed a number of auctions where old collections are being broken up and sold. The variety of weapons coming on to the market recently has been impressive. This provides an opportunity to archive examples of the weapons as a resource for members here and the wider online audience, and to raise interest in them.

My proposal is to create a series of "Museum Pages" to document Oceanic weapons by country and by type of weapon. These pages would be for information only and not for discussion. Should members wish to discuss items on the "Museum Pages," they could create a new thread for that purpose, referencing or linking to the item on the particular Museum Page. An index of the various "Museum Pages" would appear as a "sticky thread" near the top of the Ethno Forum page.

To set this up would require a lot of work and time. I'm willing to do that, provided there is sufficient interest from the membership of this site. Hence, a poll to assess that level of interest.

Ian.

[Bob A]

As indigenous peoples and their cultures have been disappearing, a repository of available information strikes me as important.

Oceania is outside my sphere for the most part, though a couple cassowary-bone daggers might give the lie to that statement. Just the same, the more we are exposed to, the more interest is likely to be generated, and the faster data could be accumulated.

A worthwhile endeavor, and thank you for being willing to take it on!

[Jim McDougall]

Brilliant idea, and a most esoteric area of ethnographic arms with VERY little literature out there. The only real reference material I have found has been mostly in "Tribal Arts" periodical which is a rich resource that delves into these areas. There are a couple of old references such as Montague on weapons of tribal peoples .

These are interesting areas, and I think a dedicated informative venue would be most helpful and encourage interest in these areas. You are a brave soul to take this on, and I'm sure your work would be greatly appreciated and recognized.

Outstanding idea!!!

[Ian]

Bob and Jim, thank you for your encouragement. As you both note, there is very little readily available information on these weapons.

Regards, Ian.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ian, as with Jim & Bob, I am of he opinion that this would be a very worthwhile undertaking, however it is an area that is not of any interest to me at the present time --- I still have an immense amount that I need to address in my chosen field, & I simply to do not have sufficient time to diversify into a different area of study.

However, I do wish you every success in getting this initiative off the ground, the door to this field of knowledge is closing fast, anything that you might be able to do preserve some understanding before it all goes, probably forever, would be a very worthy endeavour.

[kronckew]

Their is a fair amount of info from VANDOO in his series of 'Most Desired' Oceanic weapons.

[Ian]

Thanks Wayne. Yes, VANDOO posted a number of items some time ago and I plan to include his threads in the information that I assemble. I plan also to acknowledge his pioneering efforts here in this area of ethnographic weapons.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ian, as with Jim & Bob, I am of he opinion that this would be a very worthwhile undertaking, however it is an area that is not of any interest to me at the present time --- I still have an immense amount that I need to address in my chosen field, & I simply to do not have sufficient time to diversify into a different area of study.

However, I do wish you every success in getting this initiative off the ground, the door to this field of knowledge is closing fast, anything that you might be able to do preserve some understanding before it all goes, probably forever, would be a very worthy endeavour.

Thank you, Alan. I agree that the knowledge and skills in producing and using these old weapons is disappearing. There are, however, a significant number of items in the hands of collectors and museums. There has been a trend, promoted by some prominent dealers and financial managers, to invest in ethnographic items of indigenous peoples of the Pacific. These "financial assets" are then traded among the wealthy, including some serious collectors. As a result, they appear at auction every so often. Their provenance can be traced from auction to auction, sometimes being sold multiple times by the same auction house. This practice has clearly been happening for decades. I am speaking of conditions in Australia, of course, and I cannot speak for the wider market.

Recycling of pieces through private sales and auctions is one way of preserving them. Those weapons that come up for auction offer an opportunity to record them and create an archive here. Some of these go back to first contact between indigenous peoples and Europeans, and some even predate first contact. Most "early" examples, however, are from the 19th C. In Australia, an 18th C Aboriginal item is considered very old.

Alan, Oceanic weapons are not my primary area of interest also. However, I think this Forum should do what it can to record these diverse weapons before, as you note, many of them disappear forever.

Regards, Ian.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ian, as with Jim & Bob, I am of he opinion that this would be a very worthwhile undertaking, however it is an area that is not of any interest to me at the present time --- I still have an immense amount that I need to address in my chosen field, & I simply to do not have sufficient time to diversify into a different area of study.

However, I do wish you every success in getting this initiative off the ground, the door to this field of knowledge is closing fast, anything that you might be able to do preserve some understanding before it all goes, probably forever, would be a very worthy endeavour.

Hi Ian. I have quoted Alan'a post above because it is basically my own postion. Best of luck with this project!

[Jim McDougall]

I can never forget Barry (Vandoo) and Jimmy Manteris! Those guys were an exciting core of interest in Oceania! and while as been noted, I have not typically been interested in this field, but when items are presented and with some sort of context and informational dynamics, one cannot help but be intrigued.

That is why a venue as Ian has suggested would be worthwhile, and promote interest and from my perspective, perhaps historical material that would be interesting.

What Alan and David have noted regarding the financial and investment properties of items in these esoteric fields is indeed a factor which has become altogether too prevalent in ethnographic arms in general, not just these.
That is the reason a number of collectors recently have effectively 'jumped ship' in acquiring these arms, many moving into other fields such as regulation military etc.

In these circumstances the best thing for collectors is knowledge, and in fields with so little informational material, a venue like this would not only be helpful, but essential.

Again, thinking of Vandoo and Jimmy....miss those guys!!!!

[Ian]

Guys, I plan to leave the poll open until December 31st. Hopefully more of you will have some spare time to respond over the holiday break.

To those of you who have sent me a PM about this proposal, I want to thank you all for your feedback. If i haven't sent you an individual response it is because this is a busy time of year and I have overlooked doing so. My apologies. All ideas are most welcome and I thank you for your help.

Regards, Ian.

[Ian]

Bump

[Ian]

Bump

[Edster]

Ian,

Oceanic Weapons is a huge topic with many interesting ethnic groups/regions represented. Each one may be thought of as a niche area of limited overall interest and study with limited penetration to date. Certainly, a wider range of interest will emerge as more detailed material is developed and presented.

I admire your ambition. You really WANT to take on the task and do it with the attention to detail as in your other studies. But it will be a huge Multi-course Meal, likely to cover a few years.

You know how to plan complex projects, but maybe my experiences can add a bit. I would suggest that as you develop an overall project plan of attack to present an overview of the groups/areas you intend study. Maybe develop a Mind Map to organize material. Then you may choose which of these groups have the most/most diverse/etc. material and present it. The on to the next one. Deep focus can be a blessing or not. Pace yourself to avoid burnout. Likely, other Forum Members may come forward to help collect material from a preferred group/region and reduce the overall personal labor inherent with this type of endeavor.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

This is outstanding advice Ed! and shows the kind of organization and discipline which you carried out in the excellent work on the kaskara and edged weapons of the Sudan.
These kinds of studies in this kind of ethnographic sphere which cannot be well defined geographically are expectedly difficult. With like items of material culture the weapons tend to be called by various terms depending on region and dialects spoken. I was once told a specific type of weapon might be called different names almost by the villages!

It would be easy to become overwhelmed by these matters as the focus of the work expands with these variations and exceptions.

The literature on these areas is pretty sparse, and as I mentioned earlier, there is a great periodical called "Tribal Arts" which deals in articles on ethnographica. To be sure, much of this involves the arts dealers who clearly have quite a different agenda in many cases to serious students of the arms of these fields. However, the articles on the subject matter is done typically in a very scholarly manner, and provides excellent insights into many of these esoteric areas.

Probably perusing the index of articles in the issues over the years might offer a good game plan as far as the beginning core of the project as far as areas. This could be expanded later as more material became known on other areas. I subscribed to this for a while and still have the issues but stored for now as not presently involved in such studies......I sense my interest piquing!!

[Ian]

Ed and Jim,

Thank you for your wonderful support and advice. Indeed, it will take me several years to complete the entire region. Help from the membership here will be greatly appreciated.

My plan is to start with the area where I have the most access to data and most familiarity: Australasia (Australia, New Zealand, and their neighboring territories and islands). There are several online sites dealing with the peoples of this region, their culture and weapons. State and National museums have substantial collections, but relatively little on display or catalogued online. This may need some "boots on the ground" to access some of the undisplayed material. I'm working on that. The same is true for Oceania more broadly. Fortunately, I can get to many of these places more easily than when I lived in the U.S.

After Australasia, the next most promising cultures are Samoa, Fiji, and Vanuatu. There are online and museum data for these countries that help the task but some field work will be required.

After that it gets more difficult and will likely require more travel. In some ways it is a race against time as many of the "old ways" have been disappearing. There may be little to discover outside museums.

----

I am developing an overall outline for each country.

Country Name

Indigenous groups

A. Background

1. A brief history of indigenous occupants

2. Colonial history (including WWI and WWII involvement)

3. Geography

B. Weapons, Shields, Armor

1. Projectiles

a. Spears
b. Sticks/boomerangs
c. Bows, arrows
d. Other

2. Clubs

a. Throwing
b. Combat

3. Shields and armor

4. Other items adapted for fighting

5. Ceremonial/Spiritual objects

C. References and Online Resources


Additional ideas for categories are very welcome.

[Jim McDougall]

Ian, you are well situated for field research as you are located in Australia, so with regard to proximity you can direct necessary travel from a point of origin in reasonable distance. Frankly, while 'business' these locations are places which as in my early years would be seen in "National Geographic" myself and guys I knew conceded we would never go.

On that note, I used to find old "National Geographic" magazines in antique stores and book shops, and it was incredible to buy these 1920s and 30s issues which remarkable photos and articles. While not 'arms' oriented of course, and typically rather evasive in any detail, many of the images include well armed natives. These often provided remarkable insights of the contexts of many forms.

For me, in my corner always seeking the particular history of weapons, that is much of the perspective I seek. Most collectors are more toward the many variations, features and aesthetics of the forms, often with detail on manner of use etc. We all follow our own courses, but put together in a collective effort, the results would be phenomenal! and an ultimate comprehensive work on not only these weapons, but an anthropological reference of amazing value.
I have long wanted to advance ethnographic weaponry into these aspects of academia as a recognized element of anthropological perspectives.

In my research, I am quite literally in all directions all the time, so seldom focused on one. My interests in the weaponry in these fields has been intermittent and occasional, depending on what queries were at hand.
As pedestrian as it might sound, one dramatic prompt was the 1983 movie "Nate and Hayes" which regardless of 'accuracy' depicted natives and these cultures in an inspiring dimension. Other such adventure influences, mostly movies, always managed to pique my curiosity.

So NOW....my curiosity profoundly piqued!!! I must excavate those issues of TRIBAL ARTS, which subscription has long lapsed, and no idea what the RANSOM is these days but MUST resubscribe. Thanks Ian !! LOL!

The outline of your project is well laid out Iain, and I think that as a group effort (you can always count me in) ...like the "Baker Street Irregulars" in Sherlock Holmes.......many of us here can sort of be the eyes and ears seeking varied resources. We can specify and target certain areas in accord with your direction, and with your field research.

That would align with the thread which would be held as a 'sticky' and kept as a perpetual and inclusive venue to build the archived material.

Most important, those collectors who specialize in these fields, can enter their collection examples with whatever detail they have researched, and these could be moved into the categorized sections.

OK! "..the games afoot!"........uh, you know who!

[Edster]

Ian and to a lesser extent Jim,

Yes, let the games begin. We all know the Project Management Process, but I like to cast the completed document or a music recording or a high dam finally producing electricity, what ever is presented to the public or an audience is as The Performance. All the work went on well before the big event.

The Performance would never happen without the input of a whole host of back up and support. Even Taylor Swift's performance would never take place without the guys who drive the 18-wheelers to the arenas. And George Jones never made a record without the song writer, a backing band and the record producer.

Net working options: May I suggest that you enlist anthropologists at the several superior universities in Australia. They have strong on-ground experience in the the study area, especially PNG. I worked there for a short while in the early 2000s and met a couple. Here's one of several good articles on PNG stone axes. Also, people who work on construction projects in the region can also provide access.

https://digitalcollections.anu.edu.a...0-da68f20d29f8

Nothing new here. I just like the Performance metaphor.
Best,
Ed