Sandbar Bowie?

Sajen · 1st August 2025, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Just aquired a spearpoint Bowie.

16 in.LOA.
5.75 in. stag crown grip, one brass pin. Looks old & has wear.
2 in. wide razor sharp blade just ahead of the set back ricasso. 3.5 in. wide oval guard.
Spine has a 4 in. unsharpened false edge.
.25 in. thick at the ricasso, distal tapering down to about .125 in. near the tip.
weight: 1.19 lb.
No markings.

I'll let y'all convert that to metric if you want.

Any idea on its origin and/or age wold be appreciated. Thanks.

Hello Wayne,

Very nice knife!

Looks like a late 19th century or early 20th century Bowie to my eyes. I guess it's from England.

Regards,
Detlef

kronckew · 3rd August 2025, 06:02 PM

Sajen, I concurr.

Did some googling. Looks a lot like a spear point bowie by George Butler, Sheffield - probably late 19c. The std. ones he made are marked on the side of the blade, but his standard models were only up to 8 in. blades. I also found he made custom blanks for others to haft. And he'd make unmarked customs as requested by customers & was known for making non-standard ones. Appears he normally used a full tang/slab sides with 5 pins for stag grips, but not for larger crown stag grips.

I contacted the vendor of mine, & they said they thought it was German.late 19c-early 20th.

p.s. - Ijust noted i'd forgot to list the blade length on mine it's 10.25 in. - i.e. non-standard.

Picture is of one I found at a past auction, marked as Butler, 1860. note the false edge and recessed Picasso - dead ringer for my new bowie. Found a couple more of his std. spearpoints like this, just in worse condition.

Sajen · 4th August 2025, 07:10 AM

Equally if it's English or German, it's a very nice bowie!

Jim McDougall · 4th August 2025, 07:15 PM

The actual title here concerns the 'actual' type knife used at the legendary 'Sandbar' fight, which took place on a sandbar in the Mississippi river between Vidalia and Natchez Mississippi on Sept.19th, 1827.

Actually a duel with pistols between two men, with Bowie as second to one, and there were a total of 15 men present. There were distinct political and other differences between both factions of these men. When shots were fired without consequence, dissent broke out among the rest of the men, and a huge free for all ensued.
Bowie himself was shot and stabbed 5 times, with a sword cane actually lodged in him as the fight went on. Though wounded, he killed his attacker with his large knife, and severely wounded several others. At the end of the chaos, there were two killed and four badly wounded.

It seems that James' brother Rezin knew he was going to the 'meeting' (dueling was illegal, which may have been part of the choice of location) and gave him a large knife 'just in case'. The knife is believed made by Daniel Searles of Baton Rouge, who made several knives for Rezin. As with many knives of the time, it was likely made from a file, and looked like a large butcher knife, no guard.

With all the sensationalizing in news, the fight brought Bowie instant fame, and men ordering frontier knives from makers all wanted , 'a knife LIKE Bowies's'. Soon makers began adding that caption to large bladed knives, though the eponym BOWIE knife actually was not that widely known during most of the century.
Even the Alamo was not the center of Bowie knife fame, though a number of examples by mid to latter 19th c. had 'Remember the Alamo' motto on blades.

In "Man at Arms" (Vol. 25,#2, 2003) "A Biased British View of the Bowie", by F.J.Wilkinson ;
Regarding an article written in 1843 in a British magazine:
"...the writer concludes that in the future, whenever there is mention of the Bowie knives it is as well to remember they were probably manufactured by a British mechanic and sold by British merchants. A moral ending to an article that gives a brief but fascinating look at one aspect of life in America. It is perhaps of interest to note that James Bowie is not mentioned at all and neither is the Alamo, despite the anti Mexican feelings expressed. Even the famous fight at Natchez is credited to Rezin".

To reiterate my earlier post, the knife pictured is the one said to have been given to actor Edwin Forrest by Jim Bowie according to descendants of Bowie,
There is so much hyperbole surrounding the Bowie knife by writers from later in 19th through 1940s when Thorpe wrote "The Iron Mistress" and the Alan Ladd movie; then the Alamo movies that fact and fiction are hopelessly entwined.

Hotspur · 10th August 2025, 12:23 AM

Yes thanks for all the book pages and everyone's posts.

I came across this on the ASAC website while looking for other things

https://americansocietyofarmscollect...ed-version.pdf

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/

Cheers
GC

kronckew · 10th August 2025, 12:33 PM

Thanks, Hotspur! great .pdf! That Forrest knife quite possibly is a contender!

4th August 2025, 07:15 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,592	Actual 'sandbar Bowie' The actual title here concerns the 'actual' type knife used at the legendary 'Sandbar' fight, which took place on a sandbar in the Mississippi river between Vidalia and Natchez Mississippi on Sept.19th, 1827. Actually a duel with pistols between two men, with Bowie as second to one, and there were a total of 15 men present. There were distinct political and other differences between both factions of these men. When shots were fired without consequence, dissent broke out among the rest of the men, and a huge free for all ensued. Bowie himself was shot and stabbed 5 times, with a sword cane actually lodged in him as the fight went on. Though wounded, he killed his attacker with his large knife, and severely wounded several others. At the end of the chaos, there were two killed and four badly wounded. It seems that James' brother Rezin knew he was going to the 'meeting' (dueling was illegal, which may have been part of the choice of location) and gave him a large knife 'just in case'. The knife is believed made by Daniel Searles of Baton Rouge, who made several knives for Rezin. As with many knives of the time, it was likely made from a file, and looked like a large butcher knife, no guard. With all the sensationalizing in news, the fight brought Bowie instant fame, and men ordering frontier knives from makers all wanted , 'a knife LIKE Bowies's'. Soon makers began adding that caption to large bladed knives, though the eponym BOWIE knife actually was not that widely known during most of the century. Even the Alamo was not the center of Bowie knife fame, though a number of examples by mid to latter 19th c. had 'Remember the Alamo' motto on blades. In "Man at Arms" (Vol. 25,#2, 2003) "A Biased British View of the Bowie", by F.J.Wilkinson ; Regarding an article written in 1843 in a British magazine: "...the writer concludes that in the future, whenever there is mention of the Bowie knives it is as well to remember they were probably manufactured by a British mechanic and sold by British merchants. A moral ending to an article that gives a brief but fascinating look at one aspect of life in America. It is perhaps of interest to note that James Bowie is not mentioned at all and neither is the Alamo, despite the anti Mexican feelings expressed. Even the famous fight at Natchez is credited to Rezin". To reiterate my earlier post, the knife pictured is the one said to have been given to actor Edwin Forrest by Jim Bowie according to descendants of Bowie, There is so much hyperbole surrounding the Bowie knife by writers from later in 19th through 1940s when Thorpe wrote "The Iron Mistress" and the Alan Ladd movie; then the Alamo movies that fact and fiction are hopelessly entwined. Attached Images

3rd August 2025, 06:02 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	Sajen, I concurr. Did some googling. Looks a lot like a spear point bowie by George Butler, Sheffield - probably late 19c. The std. ones he made are marked on the side of the blade, but his standard models were only up to 8 in. blades. I also found he made custom blanks for others to haft. And he'd make unmarked customs as requested by customers & was known for making non-standard ones. Appears he normally used a full tang/slab sides with 5 pins for stag grips, but not for larger crown stag grips. I contacted the vendor of mine, & they said they thought it was German.late 19c-early 20th. p.s. - Ijust noted i'd forgot to list the blade length on mine it's 10.25 in. - i.e. non-standard. Picture is of one I found at a past auction, marked as Butler, 1860. note the false edge and recessed Picasso - dead ringer for my new bowie. Found a couple more of his std. spearpoints like this, just in worse condition. Attached Images

4th August 2025, 07:10 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,337	Equally if it's English or German, it's a very nice bowie!

10th August 2025, 12:23 AM	#5
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 528	Yes thanks for all the book pages and everyone's posts. I came across this on the ASAC website while looking for other things https://americansocietyofarmscollect...ed-version.pdf https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/ Cheers GC

10th August 2025, 12:33 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	Thanks, Hotspur! great .pdf! That Forrest knife quite possibly is a contender!