A large auction lot of ivory hilted Moro kris and gunong

xasterix · 27th July 2025, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks Xas. Would you care to comment on the age and dress of these items?

The blade on the middle has potential to be old, but i can't tell for sure because the gangya is obstructed. The leftmost and rightmost, I'm guessing are pre-WW2 at least. The dresses could have been made from 1920s-1970s.

Here's another kris from that collection, sorry i can't show the whole thing in deference to the owner. But you'll notice the dress is virtually the same- except this kris has a molar ivory pommel.

The ex-collector collected a massive number of pieces in Davao in the 1970s.

Ian · 28th July 2025, 12:20 AM

Thanks for sharing that additional example Xas. Very much in the same style as the other ones shown here. The ex-collector must have had quite some collection. It's interesting that this style of Moro dress lasted until the 1970s. In my experience more common vintage items that come on the market often show plainer and less refined decorative work. The hilts and scabbards shown here look to be higher quality, and perhaps that's partly why I have not see them very often over the last 30+ years.

It would be interesting to know more about the Moro craftsmen who produced this high quality work and whether it was a single family or particular community that were responsible.

As an afterthought, those looking to sell these items might have more success through offering them in smaller, less expensive lots. I understand the desire to sell a sub-collection in a reasonably intact state, but in this case a major buyer failed to emerge.

Battara · 28th July 2025, 02:31 AM

I will agree with your notations folks. Later than 19c pieces.

The style of okir and style of chasing work, though very good, is later as in WW2 and later.

That being said, I love the brass and silver chasing work on this last kris posted.

kino · 2nd August 2025, 05:22 AM

The Mammoth molar pommel above and this one looks similar.
I wonder if it’s carved by the same person….we’ll never know.

thomas hauschild · 2nd August 2025, 06:14 AM

I think there will be the same issues with the molar tooth. If declared as mammoth molar too. A hundred years ago nobody dig for mammoth molar in siberia or alaska while these tooth were availiable from the same source as tusk…….asian elephants. My informations are that all kind of materials from elephants are banned like molar tooth and leather ( if you had the chance to hold elephant leather in your hand you well ever identify it). The chance to get „trouble“ with customs will be lower..maybe.

Schreger lines in tusk will be different from elephant and mammoth. A research will give the possibility to proof if it‘s mammouth or not and a possibility for customs to decide if illegal or not. I do not know if there are visible differences if you compare molar tooth. So there will be a risk if you just say „believe me it is mammoth“ As a knifemaker I have grinded some fresh molar and some mammoth molar. The smell is realy different. And the color was nearly the same from that fresh tooth in comparison to that grips on the pictures above.

Best Thomas

Battara · 3rd August 2025, 03:11 AM

But fossil mammoth (or more likely mastodon) is millions of years old. This would be banned too?

thomas hauschild · 3rd August 2025, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

But fossil mammoth (or more likely mastodon) is millions of years old. This would be banned too?

Mammouth is legal. IMHO on this pieces we see elephant. At the end somebody will need to convince customs, that a specific piece is mammouth or not.

2nd August 2025, 05:22 AM	#4
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,020	The Mammoth molar pommel above and this one looks similar. I wonder if it’s carved by the same person….we’ll never know. Attached Images

28th July 2025, 12:20 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,513	Thanks for sharing that additional example Xas. Very much in the same style as the other ones shown here. The ex-collector must have had quite some collection. It's interesting that this style of Moro dress lasted until the 1970s. In my experience more common vintage items that come on the market often show plainer and less refined decorative work. The hilts and scabbards shown here look to be higher quality, and perhaps that's partly why I have not see them very often over the last 30+ years. It would be interesting to know more about the Moro craftsmen who produced this high quality work and whether it was a single family or particular community that were responsible. As an afterthought, those looking to sell these items might have more success through offering them in smaller, less expensive lots. I understand the desire to sell a sub-collection in a reasonably intact state, but in this case a major buyer failed to emerge.

28th July 2025, 02:31 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,342	I will agree with your notations folks. Later than 19c pieces. The style of okir and style of chasing work, though very good, is later as in WW2 and later. That being said, I love the brass and silver chasing work on this last kris posted.

2nd August 2025, 06:14 AM	#5
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 146	I think there will be the same issues with the molar tooth. If declared as mammoth molar too. A hundred years ago nobody dig for mammoth molar in siberia or alaska while these tooth were availiable from the same source as tusk…….asian elephants. My informations are that all kind of materials from elephants are banned like molar tooth and leather ( if you had the chance to hold elephant leather in your hand you well ever identify it). The chance to get „trouble“ with customs will be lower..maybe. Schreger lines in tusk will be different from elephant and mammoth. A research will give the possibility to proof if it‘s mammouth or not and a possibility for customs to decide if illegal or not. I do not know if there are visible differences if you compare molar tooth. So there will be a risk if you just say „believe me it is mammoth“ As a knifemaker I have grinded some fresh molar and some mammoth molar. The smell is realy different. And the color was nearly the same from that fresh tooth in comparison to that grips on the pictures above. Best Thomas

3rd August 2025, 03:11 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,342	But fossil mammoth (or more likely mastodon) is millions of years old. This would be banned too?