CIVIL WAR question..Ballard .44 rimfire single shot

urbanspaceman · 26th July 2025, 06:28 PM

Well, I got to thinking about what a hell of a good move Josie Wales is and well worth a quiet Saturday afternoon's viewing, seeing it has been some time.
Mostly he was using what looked like big Colts... Dragoons maybe, chambered for cartridges, but he was packing at least six pistols counting the saddle holsters.
The final showdown got the bad guy... Red-legs, pig-stuck with his own sabre. So I am wrong on both counts: it wasn't Josie Wales and there was no Remington cylinder swap. It definitely happened at the end of one of his movies.
Any takers?

kahnjar1 · 2nd August 2025, 02:46 AM

Hi Jim,
I have refrained from posting here but I did wonder if your rifle was used for competition shooting because of the type of sights fitted.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2025, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
I have refrained from posting here but I did wonder if your rifle was used for competition shooting because of the type of sights fitted.
Stu

Hi Stu,
Im glad you did come in! Im certainly no expert on guns, but I have gotten a few over the years just out of historic interest.

That is surely a good possibility, as these rifles were made by Ball & Williams in 1862-64, and if I understand, the production runs of those for prospective military issue were interspaced with civilian in the serial sequences. While the original order for 5000 for military was outrun by costs and other makers, Sharps in particular, and the run of 5000 fell far short.

While many of these are known to have gone to Kentucky, there may have been numbers to other private groups in the manner of militia, and these would not have had issue marks.

As they were in some degree intended for sharpshooters, the sights may have been intended or used for either. As I understand these were good 'sporters' and used even for buffalo hunt by large caliber. '

As I say, I dont know for sure, but I have thought competition shooting was typically smaller calibers.
I hope others with expertise in these matters might join in.

Thank you for the entry Stu, much appreciated and sorry I dont have a better answer.

Jim

kahnjar1 · 2nd August 2025, 05:45 AM

Hi Jim,
I assume by "sharpshooters" you mean "snipers". I did not think that way, but meant competition shooters, and large calibers were definitely used for this purpose. An example would be the Bisley shooting competitions in the UK.
Above someone has mentioned Flaydermans Guide to American Weapons. I did have copy of this once and found it most informative so if you can get hold of one it would be well worth your while. I do note that ABEBOOKS.COM have copies available quite cheaply.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2025, 06:35 AM

That makes sense Stu, and good tip on the Flayderman book!
So then I could see why these might be used for competition.
Were sights used for competition different than those used in military or for hunting?

Jim

kahnjar1 · 3rd August 2025, 04:22 AM

Hi Jim,
This link will explain the different sights and their use better than I would. Your rifle has both types of sights so IMHO is probably more likely to be for competition than not. https://www.google.com/search?q=hist...t=gws-wiz-serp
Stu

Jim McDougall · 4th August 2025, 01:55 PM

Thanks very much Stu, and I very much agree. Actually when I first got this rifle, I felt it was of course a hunting rifle, however I felt that given the 'climate of war' circumstances of its period, it could easily have become an ersatz weapon of battle as required. As these were actually ordered as noted for Kentucky militia that would support their viability as a combat weapon despite their intended use as a sporting arm.

Obviously speculative optimism is as always, just what it is. While this is clearly a sporting weapon, I did not realize that such a heavy caliber would be used in competition shooting, but here my naivete regarding firearms is revealed.
I thought that competition shooting used smaller caliber, and one Civil War period (by serial #) Smith & Wesson #2 revolver I bought was only affordable because as offered, it had been rechambered from the original .32 cal to a .22 caliber, for target shooting.
I think that was where I got my notion.

Always learning Stu!!! Thank you so much for your insights!!!

all best regards
Jim

26th July 2025, 06:28 PM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 715	No memory Well, I got to thinking about what a hell of a good move Josie Wales is and well worth a quiet Saturday afternoon's viewing, seeing it has been some time. Mostly he was using what looked like big Colts... Dragoons maybe, chambered for cartridges, but he was packing at least six pistols counting the saddle holsters. The final showdown got the bad guy... Red-legs, pig-stuck with his own sabre. So I am wrong on both counts: it wasn't Josie Wales and there was no Remington cylinder swap. It definitely happened at the end of one of his movies. Any takers?

2nd August 2025, 06:35 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,571	That makes sense Stu, and good tip on the Flayderman book! So then I could see why these might be used for competition. Were sights used for competition different than those used in military or for hunting? Jim Attached Images

2nd August 2025, 02:46 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Hi Jim, I have refrained from posting here but I did wonder if your rifle was used for competition shooting because of the type of sights fitted. Stu

2nd August 2025, 05:45 AM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Hi Jim, I assume by "sharpshooters" you mean "snipers". I did not think that way, but meant competition shooters, and large calibers were definitely used for this purpose. An example would be the Bisley shooting competitions in the UK. Above someone has mentioned Flaydermans Guide to American Weapons. I did have copy of this once and found it most informative so if you can get hold of one it would be well worth your while. I do note that ABEBOOKS.COM have copies available quite cheaply. Stu

3rd August 2025, 04:22 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Hi Jim, This link will explain the different sights and their use better than I would. Your rifle has both types of sights so IMHO is probably more likely to be for competition than not. https://www.google.com/search?q=hist...t=gws-wiz-serp Stu

4th August 2025, 01:55 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,571	Thanks very much Stu, and I very much agree. Actually when I first got this rifle, I felt it was of course a hunting rifle, however I felt that given the 'climate of war' circumstances of its period, it could easily have become an ersatz weapon of battle as required. As these were actually ordered as noted for Kentucky militia that would support their viability as a combat weapon despite their intended use as a sporting arm. Obviously speculative optimism is as always, just what it is. While this is clearly a sporting weapon, I did not realize that such a heavy caliber would be used in competition shooting, but here my naivete regarding firearms is revealed. I thought that competition shooting used smaller caliber, and one Civil War period (by serial #) Smith & Wesson #2 revolver I bought was only affordable because as offered, it had been rechambered from the original .32 cal to a .22 caliber, for target shooting. I think that was where I got my notion. Always learning Stu!!! Thank you so much for your insights!!! all best regards Jim