Wooden hilt cup and composite wood hilt

adamb · 24th July 2025, 08:33 AM

For anyone interested in this matter: I removed the hilt from the tang to inspect it closer. The hilt definitely seems to be comprised of at least two distinct kinds of materials: 1) a dark wood with a lustrous, rich grain; 2) smaller elements comprised of what I previously interpreted as a lighter-coloured wood, one with no distinct grain. The two parts have been joined together with glue in an intricate pattern. The hilt cup had been glued to the hilt with some sort of fibrous white adhesive. I scraped away the remnants of the adhesive on both. This revealed that the hilt cup is comprised entirely of some sort of whitish-coloured material that has been coated with what seems to be a dark-coloured lacquer/shellac. The same material is also visible in the composite hilt, suggesting hilt and hilt cup are contemporaneous. I don't know what this whitish material is: I tested it with a red hot needle; the needle went in and the smell I interpret as being earthy/woody. By contrast, I did the same test on an two resin-cast keris hilts: both gave off a strong plastic smell that was distinct from the earthy/woody smell. I also did the needle test on the bone hilt of a mandau, and on a deer antler: in both cases, the hot needle could hardly be pushed in, and the resultant smells were again distinct from the earthy/woody smell. So perhaps it is some kind of soft(ish), light-coloured wood (but if so, I can't see any grain).

A. G. Maisey · 25th July 2025, 12:17 AM

Adam, what I believe I can see at the bottom end of that hilt is a fairly common repair for a cracked hilt, the hilt hole is enlarged, the hilt is compressed to close the cracks, the insert is put in place with a strong adhesive. In the case of your hilt, it appears that the insert has been run through the wooden cup as well.

If a the upper part of a hilt is also badly cracked, or there is a hole through it, usually caused by careless drilling of the tang hole, that insert will be run all the way through the hilt and reshaped into correct form. I suspect something like this could have been done with your hilt.

I note that you are wearing an armour glove. I am aware that some people do wear these when using sharp tools, however, I personally find that I have much better control of power tools & much better feel of traditional manual tools without the glove. Going back to when I was doing a lot of custom knife work there was a bit of a craze for makers to wear these gloves, & at the time it seemed like a good idea, so I gave it a try. I slipped up so many times when using even a single glove that I finally dumped those expensive gloves in the rubbish bin.

adamb · 25th July 2025, 08:34 AM

Sorry Alan, I hope this image is a bit clearer now; the coloured areas in the schematic illustration show the parts of the keris hilt that seem to be comprised of different materials to the richly grained wood (left blank in the schematic). Seems like an extraordinary amount of effort to patch up a damaged hilt.

Regarding the glove (actually very cheap from Bunnings), until I develop a higher level of skill in the use of the very sharp knife I used to scrape away the tough glue, I prefer to keep all my fingers intact! But I appreciate the advice, thank you.

A. G. Maisey · 25th July 2025, 09:50 AM

Thanks for those pics Adam, yes, the various materials used are now quite clear, and you're dead right, it would have been a lot of work, but if one is a skilled worker in wood, such a job would not be at all difficult. For example, my own father was expert in the art of marquetry, and for him, a job like this would be no effort at all. On the other hand, for me it would be very difficult.

If a new hilt is not able to be obtained, the repair of the old hilt is necessary, but in my experience, such a repair would never be done in the areas of SE Asia with which I am familiar.

My opinion is that this hilt was repaired outside the culture of origin of the keris.

I'm pleased to hear that something has come down in price, those gloves were really very expensive back in the 1980's. I do not believe I gave any advice in respect of the use of those gloves in combination with wood working tools, I only related my own experience with them.

adamb · 30th July 2025, 05:59 AM

I've just noticed that the wooden hilt of another of my old Bugis keris has two patches of different-looking material (shaded areas in this schematic illustration) in more or less the same places as the other one I posted above, with lacquer over both the patches and the original wood - but this time, the repair work, if that is what it is, seems to have been much less expertly done.

Has anyone else seen this with Bugis keris hilts before?

David · 30th July 2025, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamb

I've just noticed that the wooden hilt of another of my old Bugis keris has two patches of different-looking material (shaded areas in this schematic illustration) in more or less the same places as the other one I posted above, with lacquer over both the patches and the original wood - but this time, the repair work, if that is what it is, seems to have been much less expertly done.

Has anyone else seen this with Bugis keris hilts before?

I'm pretty sure what you see on this second hilt is just a variation in the colour of the wood.

adamb · Yesterday, 01:40 AM

"I'm pretty sure what you see on this second hilt is just a variation in the colour of the wood."

David, it is not a variation in the colour of the wood or some sort of natural inclusion within the wood prior to carving the hilt.

The attached photos at x1.2 magnification clearly show that this material overlies the wood of the hilt and that it comprises some kind of orangey-coloured resin that has been carefully moulded to match the form of the hilt, and then both resin and wood have been coated in lacquer.

One of the photographs I've attached here shows where the resin has cracked.

To me it looks like a carefully done repair job, as per Alan's suggestion for the other Bugis keris handle.

If so, the question is: why would someone go to so much trouble to patch up a damaged hilt when it would probably have been easier to get a new one.

24th July 2025, 08:33 AM	#1
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 32	For anyone interested in this matter: I removed the hilt from the tang to inspect it closer. The hilt definitely seems to be comprised of at least two distinct kinds of materials: 1) a dark wood with a lustrous, rich grain; 2) smaller elements comprised of what I previously interpreted as a lighter-coloured wood, one with no distinct grain. The two parts have been joined together with glue in an intricate pattern. The hilt cup had been glued to the hilt with some sort of fibrous white adhesive. I scraped away the remnants of the adhesive on both. This revealed that the hilt cup is comprised entirely of some sort of whitish-coloured material that has been coated with what seems to be a dark-coloured lacquer/shellac. The same material is also visible in the composite hilt, suggesting hilt and hilt cup are contemporaneous. I don't know what this whitish material is: I tested it with a red hot needle; the needle went in and the smell I interpret as being earthy/woody. By contrast, I did the same test on an two resin-cast keris hilts: both gave off a strong plastic smell that was distinct from the earthy/woody smell. I also did the needle test on the bone hilt of a mandau, and on a deer antler: in both cases, the hot needle could hardly be pushed in, and the resultant smells were again distinct from the earthy/woody smell. So perhaps it is some kind of soft(ish), light-coloured wood (but if so, I can't see any grain). Attached Images

25th July 2025, 08:34 AM	#3
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 32	Sorry Alan, I hope this image is a bit clearer now; the coloured areas in the schematic illustration show the parts of the keris hilt that seem to be comprised of different materials to the richly grained wood (left blank in the schematic). Seems like an extraordinary amount of effort to patch up a damaged hilt. Regarding the glove (actually very cheap from Bunnings), until I develop a higher level of skill in the use of the very sharp knife I used to scrape away the tough glue, I prefer to keep all my fingers intact! But I appreciate the advice, thank you. Attached Images

30th July 2025, 05:59 AM	#5
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 32	I've just noticed that the wooden hilt of another of my old Bugis keris has two patches of different-looking material (shaded areas in this schematic illustration) in more or less the same places as the other one I posted above, with lacquer over both the patches and the original wood - but this time, the repair work, if that is what it is, seems to have been much less expertly done. Has anyone else seen this with Bugis keris hilts before? Attached Images

Yesterday, 01:40 AM	#7
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 32	"I'm pretty sure what you see on this second hilt is just a variation in the colour of the wood." David, it is not a variation in the colour of the wood or some sort of natural inclusion within the wood prior to carving the hilt. The attached photos at x1.2 magnification clearly show that this material overlies the wood of the hilt and that it comprises some kind of orangey-coloured resin that has been carefully moulded to match the form of the hilt, and then both resin and wood have been coated in lacquer. One of the photographs I've attached here shows where the resin has cracked. To me it looks like a carefully done repair job, as per Alan's suggestion for the other Bugis keris handle. If so, the question is: why would someone go to so much trouble to patch up a damaged hilt when it would probably have been easier to get a new one. Attached Images

25th July 2025, 12:17 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Adam, what I believe I can see at the bottom end of that hilt is a fairly common repair for a cracked hilt, the hilt hole is enlarged, the hilt is compressed to close the cracks, the insert is put in place with a strong adhesive. In the case of your hilt, it appears that the insert has been run through the wooden cup as well. If a the upper part of a hilt is also badly cracked, or there is a hole through it, usually caused by careless drilling of the tang hole, that insert will be run all the way through the hilt and reshaped into correct form. I suspect something like this could have been done with your hilt. I note that you are wearing an armour glove. I am aware that some people do wear these when using sharp tools, however, I personally find that I have much better control of power tools & much better feel of traditional manual tools without the glove. Going back to when I was doing a lot of custom knife work there was a bit of a craze for makers to wear these gloves, & at the time it seemed like a good idea, so I gave it a try. I slipped up so many times when using even a single glove that I finally dumped those expensive gloves in the rubbish bin.

25th July 2025, 09:50 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Thanks for those pics Adam, yes, the various materials used are now quite clear, and you're dead right, it would have been a lot of work, but if one is a skilled worker in wood, such a job would not be at all difficult. For example, my own father was expert in the art of marquetry, and for him, a job like this would be no effort at all. On the other hand, for me it would be very difficult. If a new hilt is not able to be obtained, the repair of the old hilt is necessary, but in my experience, such a repair would never be done in the areas of SE Asia with which I am familiar. My opinion is that this hilt was repaired outside the culture of origin of the keris. I'm pleased to hear that something has come down in price, those gloves were really very expensive back in the 1980's. I do not believe I gave any advice in respect of the use of those gloves in combination with wood working tools, I only related my own experience with them.