CIVIL WAR question..Ballard .44 rimfire single shot

urbanspaceman · 23rd July 2025, 09:50 AM

"I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?"
Yes, and it was a Remington; I didn't mention a manufacturer, only that the feature was a rapidly replaced cylinder - which was the essence of the issue.
I didn't suggest it was such a simple replacement exercise as the Rogers and Spencer, I just remember it being the effort that won the day, because I looked at my Remington at the time and didn't see how it could have been achieved, so put it down to Hollywood fabrication.
I also suggested that I saw no reason why it could not have been used equally effectively on the approaching cartridge cylinders; does anyone know why not?

CutlassCollector · 23rd July 2025, 11:38 AM

Google tells me that speed loaders were invented in 1879.
Strange how they did not make it into our TV cop shows or movies until a hundred years later!

I don't know for sure whether there were cartridge pistols with quick change cylinders, but as some percussion guns were converted it seems likely. The need, however, would be much reduced as bullets could be reloaded much more quickly.
It would be highly unlikely that a percussion revolver could be reloaded in the midst of an action.

It takes all the actions of any muzzle loader. Powder in, ball in, ramrod, wad - even for one chamber multiply by six for a full load. Then the fiddly bit of getting a percussion cap on to each nipple - hopefully with the aid of a dispenser.

The percussion revolver also had an additional requirement - each loaded chamber had to be sealed with grease. This was to prevent any discharge setting off another or all the other chambers, as the ignition flash was so close, as a part of it exited at the junction between chamber and barrel.
This not good for the gun or your hand.

urbanspaceman · 23rd July 2025, 03:09 PM

Thank-you CC. I was not aware of the percussion ignition spreading, but now I look at my Colt (made for export to London) pocket pistol I see just how much damage was done to the surrounding surfaces. Ouch! indeed.
When I was researching my Remington Rolling Block pistol, I read that the (US) Navy wanted to return the 5,000 percussion pistols they had recently acquired.
All you have said, plus salt-water, and freezing cold wet fingers attempting to get the caps fitted, rendered them useless a lot of the time. They were exchanged for the new .50 rim-fire cartridge, rolling-block pistols. It's not hard to see why. As I've said many times, I would sooner have one of those, with a bandolier full of ammunition, than any revolver - any time.
All but c.140 were soon returned for conversion to center-fire and a shrouded trigger. I was lucky to find that first generation model: it is a superb job, even with the spur trigger.

urbanspaceman · 26th July 2025, 06:28 PM

Well, I got to thinking about what a hell of a good move Josie Wales is and well worth a quiet Saturday afternoon's viewing, seeing it has been some time.
Mostly he was using what looked like big Colts... Dragoons maybe, chambered for cartridges, but he was packing at least six pistols counting the saddle holsters.
The final showdown got the bad guy... Red-legs, pig-stuck with his own sabre. So I am wrong on both counts: it wasn't Josie Wales and there was no Remington cylinder swap. It definitely happened at the end of one of his movies.
Any takers?

23rd July 2025, 09:50 AM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 688	no make mentioned "I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?" Yes, and it was a Remington; I didn't mention a manufacturer, only that the feature was a rapidly replaced cylinder - which was the essence of the issue. I didn't suggest it was such a simple replacement exercise as the Rogers and Spencer, I just remember it being the effort that won the day, because I looked at my Remington at the time and didn't see how it could have been achieved, so put it down to Hollywood fabrication. I also suggested that I saw no reason why it could not have been used equally effectively on the approaching cartridge cylinders; does anyone know why not?

23rd July 2025, 03:09 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 688	cap it all Thank-you CC. I was not aware of the percussion ignition spreading, but now I look at my Colt (made for export to London) pocket pistol I see just how much damage was done to the surrounding surfaces. Ouch! indeed. When I was researching my Remington Rolling Block pistol, I read that the (US) Navy wanted to return the 5,000 percussion pistols they had recently acquired. All you have said, plus salt-water, and freezing cold wet fingers attempting to get the caps fitted, rendered them useless a lot of the time. They were exchanged for the new .50 rim-fire cartridge, rolling-block pistols. It's not hard to see why. As I've said many times, I would sooner have one of those, with a bandolier full of ammunition, than any revolver - any time. All but c.140 were soon returned for conversion to center-fire and a shrouded trigger. I was lucky to find that first generation model: it is a superb job, even with the spur trigger.

26th July 2025, 06:28 PM	#4
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 688	No memory Well, I got to thinking about what a hell of a good move Josie Wales is and well worth a quiet Saturday afternoon's viewing, seeing it has been some time. Mostly he was using what looked like big Colts... Dragoons maybe, chambered for cartridges, but he was packing at least six pistols counting the saddle holsters. The final showdown got the bad guy... Red-legs, pig-stuck with his own sabre. So I am wrong on both counts: it wasn't Josie Wales and there was no Remington cylinder swap. It definitely happened at the end of one of his movies. Any takers?

23rd July 2025, 11:38 AM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 366	Google tells me that speed loaders were invented in 1879. Strange how they did not make it into our TV cop shows or movies until a hundred years later! I don't know for sure whether there were cartridge pistols with quick change cylinders, but as some percussion guns were converted it seems likely. The need, however, would be much reduced as bullets could be reloaded much more quickly. It would be highly unlikely that a percussion revolver could be reloaded in the midst of an action. It takes all the actions of any muzzle loader. Powder in, ball in, ramrod, wad - even for one chamber multiply by six for a full load. Then the fiddly bit of getting a percussion cap on to each nipple - hopefully with the aid of a dispenser. The percussion revolver also had an additional requirement - each loaded chamber had to be sealed with grease. This was to prevent any discharge setting off another or all the other chambers, as the ignition flash was so close, as a part of it exited at the junction between chamber and barrel. This not good for the gun or your hand.