Ottoman Empire? Dagger for ID

RobT · 17th July 2025, 01:38 AM

Hi All,

I recently got this knife and have finally gotten around to start to clean it. I suspect that it is from somewhere in the Ottoman Empire but since that covers a lot of territory and a lot of different groups, I am hoping someone can identify it specifically to place and culture.
The blade is about 7.375” (about 18.8cm). The back of the false edge is slightly higher than the spine. The ricasso and all the metal on the hilt has a brass hue in some places and a silver hue in others. The hilt scales are brown horn.
The sheath is wood covered with brass. The wiggle work design is the same front and back. Since the sheath was originally fitted with a soldered brass loop that holds a brass ring, I believe the leather belt loop is an aftermarket addition.

Sincerely,
RobT

David R · 17th July 2025, 10:43 PM

Looks like a Surmene Bichaq to me.

Battara · 18th July 2025, 08:53 PM

Dave I was first thinking of that, but the upturned tip makes me less sure.

Ian · 19th July 2025, 12:49 AM

Hi Rob,

Very interesting and unusual knife. I'm thinking that the blade is shaped more like a khanjar than a bichaq. I've not seen another like it.

Ian.

RobT · 19th July 2025, 01:35 AM

Thanks for your responses. I seem to have a penchant for things that don't quite fit. While I tend to agree with David R’s Sürmene attribution, I have also noted the blade shape as mentioned by Battara and Ian. As I said in my initial post, I am currently cleaning the blade (with Nevr-Dull). This hands on process gives me the tactile sense of a koummya. Go figure.
I should also mention that my hand contact is rubbing off the yellow color on the ferrule and it is coming up silver.

Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 19th July 2025, 04:51 AM

Might have been a gold wash over silver. The long back "ricasso" had me thinking about a koummya also. In our recent discussion about koummya and khanjar in Morocco, it was noted that northern Morocco used the term khanjar for its curved dagger, and was more closely aligned with Ottoman trends. Just a thought or two that may have nothing to do with Rob's knife.

fennec · 24th July 2025, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

Looks like a Surmene Bichaq to me.

I was also about to say "Trabzon knife", that is actually same area.

Take a look to this one

HTML Code:

http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/photos.php?id=2310

17th July 2025, 01:38 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 567	Ottoman Empire? Dagger for ID Hi All, I recently got this knife and have finally gotten around to start to clean it. I suspect that it is from somewhere in the Ottoman Empire but since that covers a lot of territory and a lot of different groups, I am hoping someone can identify it specifically to place and culture. The blade is about 7.375” (about 18.8cm). The back of the false edge is slightly higher than the spine. The ricasso and all the metal on the hilt has a brass hue in some places and a silver hue in others. The hilt scales are brown horn. The sheath is wood covered with brass. The wiggle work design is the same front and back. Since the sheath was originally fitted with a soldered brass loop that holds a brass ring, I believe the leather belt loop is an aftermarket addition. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

19th July 2025, 01:35 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 567	Another Odd Ball Thanks for your responses. I seem to have a penchant for things that don't quite fit. While I tend to agree with David R’s Sürmene attribution, I have also noted the blade shape as mentioned by Battara and Ian. As I said in my initial post, I am currently cleaning the blade (with Nevr-Dull). This hands on process gives me the tactile sense of a koummya. Go figure. I should also mention that my hand contact is rubbing off the yellow color on the ferrule and it is coming up silver. Sincerely, RobT

17th July 2025, 10:43 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,134	Looks like a Surmene Bichaq to me.

18th July 2025, 08:53 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,342	Dave I was first thinking of that, but the upturned tip makes me less sure.

19th July 2025, 12:49 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,512	Hi Rob, Very interesting and unusual knife. I'm thinking that the blade is shaped more like a khanjar than a bichaq. I've not seen another like it. Ian.

19th July 2025, 04:51 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,512	Might have been a gold wash over silver. The long back "ricasso" had me thinking about a koummya also. In our recent discussion about koummya and khanjar in Morocco, it was noted that northern Morocco used the term khanjar for its curved dagger, and was more closely aligned with Ottoman trends. Just a thought or two that may have nothing to do with Rob's knife.