CIVIL WAR question..Ballard .44 rimfire single shot

CutlassCollector · 18th July 2025, 05:26 PM

Rogers and Spencer .44 Percussion Revolver.

The US government ordered 5000 of them near the end of the war but only 1500 were delivered before the end of the conflict - I guess that still counts as a Civil War gun.

Unclip the bar from under the muzzle and the rammer can be used to load each chamber on the gun. Pull the assembly further out and the cylinder can be dropped out as the upper bar forms the axle about which it rotates. A spare fully loaded cylinder can than be dropped in for a fast reload.
Of course it was the end of the percussion era so these innovations did not last long before cartridge revolvers took over.

Jim McDougall · 18th July 2025, 06:48 PM

Totally amazing piece CC! I never even heard of these. It seems there were quite a few individual designs vying for contracts, and as seen here and with the Ballard and others, many contracts were far from completed.
I think that is what is exciting about firearms of this period during and after the war.

Bannerman was a mysterious and incredible entity, it seems he had his hands in all manner of surplus, stockpiling literally tons of weapons after the war and it seems in many other areas even foreign. I think he was impetus for the basic pursuits of arms collecting in the early part of the century.
Would have loved to see his island and castle in the middle of the Hudson River back in the day!

urbanspaceman · 18th July 2025, 07:21 PM

I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?
It was a definite boon with percussion arms and it would have been equally useful on cartridge revolvers surely?
Today, of course, swing out cylinders allow the use of speed loaders.

Jim McDougall · 18th July 2025, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?
It was a definite boon with percussion arms and it would have been equally useful on cartridge revolvers surely?
Today, of course, swing out cylinders allow the use of speed loaders.

Thats weird Keith! We were just talking about 'speed loaders' and were trying to remember which Eastwood movie that was seen in!

Edster · 22nd July 2025, 05:31 PM

Sorry guys, Eastwood used a Remington in Pale Rider. Here's an AI search:

In the movie Pale Rider (1985), Clint Eastwood's character, "Preacher," uses a Remington 1858 New Army revolver. The gun is notably featured in the film, with its interchangeable cylinders being demonstrated by Eastwood. It is a .44 caliber pistol, originally a cap-and-ball percussion model, but modified for the film to fire metallic cartridges.

Best,
Ed

urbanspaceman · 23rd July 2025, 09:50 AM

"I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?"
Yes, and it was a Remington; I didn't mention a manufacturer, only that the feature was a rapidly replaced cylinder - which was the essence of the issue.
I didn't suggest it was such a simple replacement exercise as the Rogers and Spencer, I just remember it being the effort that won the day, because I looked at my Remington at the time and didn't see how it could have been achieved, so put it down to Hollywood fabrication.
I also suggested that I saw no reason why it could not have been used equally effectively on the approaching cartridge cylinders; does anyone know why not?

CutlassCollector · 23rd July 2025, 11:38 AM

Google tells me that speed loaders were invented in 1879.
Strange how they did not make it into our TV cop shows or movies until a hundred years later!

I don't know for sure whether there were cartridge pistols with quick change cylinders, but as some percussion guns were converted it seems likely. The need, however, would be much reduced as bullets could be reloaded much more quickly.
It would be highly unlikely that a percussion revolver could be reloaded in the midst of an action.

It takes all the actions of any muzzle loader. Powder in, ball in, ramrod, wad - even for one chamber multiply by six for a full load. Then the fiddly bit of getting a percussion cap on to each nipple - hopefully with the aid of a dispenser.

The percussion revolver also had an additional requirement - each loaded chamber had to be sealed with grease. This was to prevent any discharge setting off another or all the other chambers, as the ignition flash was so close, as a part of it exited at the junction between chamber and barrel.
This not good for the gun or your hand.

18th July 2025, 05:26 PM	#1
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 369	Rogers and Spencer .44 Percussion Revolver. The US government ordered 5000 of them near the end of the war but only 1500 were delivered before the end of the conflict - I guess that still counts as a Civil War gun. Unclip the bar from under the muzzle and the rammer can be used to load each chamber on the gun. Pull the assembly further out and the cylinder can be dropped out as the upper bar forms the axle about which it rotates. A spare fully loaded cylinder can than be dropped in for a fast reload. Of course it was the end of the percussion era so these innovations did not last long before cartridge revolvers took over. Attached Images

18th July 2025, 07:21 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 722	Our Man Clint I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes? It was a definite boon with percussion arms and it would have been equally useful on cartridge revolvers surely? Today, of course, swing out cylinders allow the use of speed loaders.

23rd July 2025, 09:50 AM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 722	no make mentioned "I am certain the final showdown in the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales" features a replaceable cylinder winning the day... yes?" Yes, and it was a Remington; I didn't mention a manufacturer, only that the feature was a rapidly replaced cylinder - which was the essence of the issue. I didn't suggest it was such a simple replacement exercise as the Rogers and Spencer, I just remember it being the effort that won the day, because I looked at my Remington at the time and didn't see how it could have been achieved, so put it down to Hollywood fabrication. I also suggested that I saw no reason why it could not have been used equally effectively on the approaching cartridge cylinders; does anyone know why not?

18th July 2025, 06:48 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,656	Totally amazing piece CC! I never even heard of these. It seems there were quite a few individual designs vying for contracts, and as seen here and with the Ballard and others, many contracts were far from completed. I think that is what is exciting about firearms of this period during and after the war. Bannerman was a mysterious and incredible entity, it seems he had his hands in all manner of surplus, stockpiling literally tons of weapons after the war and it seems in many other areas even foreign. I think he was impetus for the basic pursuits of arms collecting in the early part of the century. Would have loved to see his island and castle in the middle of the Hudson River back in the day!

22nd July 2025, 05:31 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 440	Sorry guys, Eastwood used a Remington in Pale Rider. Here's an AI search: In the movie Pale Rider (1985), Clint Eastwood's character, "Preacher," uses a Remington 1858 New Army revolver. The gun is notably featured in the film, with its interchangeable cylinders being demonstrated by Eastwood. It is a .44 caliber pistol, originally a cap-and-ball percussion model, but modified for the film to fire metallic cartridges. Best, Ed

23rd July 2025, 11:38 AM	#7
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 369	Google tells me that speed loaders were invented in 1879. Strange how they did not make it into our TV cop shows or movies until a hundred years later! I don't know for sure whether there were cartridge pistols with quick change cylinders, but as some percussion guns were converted it seems likely. The need, however, would be much reduced as bullets could be reloaded much more quickly. It would be highly unlikely that a percussion revolver could be reloaded in the midst of an action. It takes all the actions of any muzzle loader. Powder in, ball in, ramrod, wad - even for one chamber multiply by six for a full load. Then the fiddly bit of getting a percussion cap on to each nipple - hopefully with the aid of a dispenser. The percussion revolver also had an additional requirement - each loaded chamber had to be sealed with grease. This was to prevent any discharge setting off another or all the other chambers, as the ignition flash was so close, as a part of it exited at the junction between chamber and barrel. This not good for the gun or your hand.