Wooden hilt cup and composite wood hilt

adamb · 9th July 2025, 02:28 AM

Thanks Alan, I'm not sure it's a repair job since there is a separate area of the same lighter coloured wood on the hilt well below the part that would be damaged if they drilled the hole for the pesi too deep; this other piece of lighter coloured wood is oriented in the same direction as the first, which seems intentional. This should be visible in the very last photo I posted in my last post.

It looks to me more like someone glued some different pieces of wood together and then carved the handle from that composite block of wood - suggesting the banding is a deliberate design feature.

Regarding the hilt cup, now that I look at it, the hilt cup seems to be carved from the same lighter coloured wood that has been incorporated into the hilt, suggesting it is original rather than a recent/non-cultural replacement.

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2025, 05:03 AM

Adam, I did not suggest that this was a repair of damage caused by the over drilling of a tang hole, I am merely relating what I have seen in the past.

Something I have never seen is a hilt that has been made by gluing pieces of wood together & then carving those pieces of wood. Moreover, parts of the hilt appear to be genuinely old, other parts of it do not.

What I believe I can see is that we have a hilt with some sections of very high contrast material, the lines of demarcation between these contrasting zones are very crisp & well defined, however, in some places it does appear that the grain of the wood continues across the lines of demarcation.

There is something else that is also apparent, sections of the wood have quite high chatoyance.

Further, the crest of the hilt appears to have been replaced, and although this would be the most simple of repairs, it has been very clumsily done, so perhaps we are looking at a couple of different people working on this hilt.

The wooden fitting between the hilt & blade does not bear any resemblance at all to the usual metal fitting, additionally, the hilt sits on top of this wooden fitting not within it.

Something about the sarung also seems a little strange to me, & that is that the metal collar that covers the joint between the top part of the sarung & the bottom part of the sarung is of a style that I have never seen, either in the hand, or in a photo.

Now, let me put this upfront:- my knowledge of Bugis & Peninsula keris is only slight, but I have handled quite a lot of this style of keris over the years, going back into the 1950's there were many more of this type of keris available for purchase in Australia than there were Javanese & Balinese keris.

The various variations in the norm that I believe I can see in this keris all have the appearance work done by a collector from a society other than the originating society.

This opinion could well be incorrect, and if it can be demonstrated that it is incorrect then I will willingly withdraw it.

If I had this hilt myself, I would carry out a detailed examination under magnification & I would not neglect an internal examination of the tang hole.

Gustav · 9th July 2025, 04:55 PM

I have a Sumatran Keris, which has an older wooden Pendokok-like object between blade and hilt. They have been together for some time, it is too small yet it embraces the Bungkul of hilt well, but that object likely is an emergency solution. As the blade has a very special Pamor and is well done for a Sumatran Bugis style blade, the original Pendokok may have had some value by itself.

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2025, 11:28 PM

I've seen that form in metal Gustav, one of the ones that I have seen, originally had a little cup & the turned stem had the same form as your wooden one, but that little cup had a big piece missing.

The next time I visited the owner of that keris he had filed the metal cup down, so that only the stem & a tiny cup was left --- very similar to what you have shown in wood.

I've also seen wooden mendaks on Javanese keris, & wooden wewer on Balinese keris, not all that uncommon & usually from an ebony.

Seen the same thing in ivory.

So the hilt ring can exist in wood & materials other than metal, but Adam's is the first wooden cup-form I've seen on a Bugis style keris, and the form of Adam's wooden hilt ring does not really echo any Bugis form that I can recall having seen.

This, of course, does not mean other fittings like Adam's do not exist, it just means that I have yet to see another.

RobT · 10th July 2025, 01:10 AM

Hi All,

When I got this Bali keris it had this wood selut fitted to the horn kocet kocetan hilt and I added the uwer. I don’t know if the selut is original to the piece but looking at it from the new perspective caused by this thread, I can see the selut working on a Bugis keris with a Garuda hilt. Not to hijack this thread but, if the selut is inappropriate, I would appreciate seeing examples of what would be correct.

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · 10th July 2025, 02:15 AM

I've seen exactly the same as your example Rob, but on a Bali keris, not Bugis, & I've seen that same selut style in horn as well as ebony.

The form of this wooden one echos the usual metal Balinese form.

David · 10th July 2025, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

When I got this Bali keris it had this wood selut fitted to the horn kocet kocetan hilt and I added the uwer. I don’t know if the selut is original to the piece but looking at it from the new perspective caused by this thread, I can see the selut working on a Bugis keris with a Garuda hilt. Not to hijack this thread but, if the selut is inappropriate, I would appreciate seeing examples of what would be correct.

Sincerely,
RobT

Yes Rob, i agree with Alan that this is not unusual. Here is an example i own with a similar wooden "selut".

adamb · 10th July 2025, 10:39 PM

Thanks all for your insight. I do wonder now if the wooden hilt cup on my Bugis keris is indeed original and that the use of wood instead of metal has some meaning or significance. I’m aware that wood and wooden objects can have spiritual power for the Bugis and Makasar in South Sulawesi; for example, I was once given, by a Bugis person, a piece of lightweight, whitish-yellow coloured wood about 30 cm long and that looks like a section of thin tree branch with bark removed - this innocuous looking object is said to be a very dangerous weapon that can cause a person’s death simply by touching them with it. There’s also this lightweight wooden “sword” (picture attached), a component of a back-strap loom used for weaving textiles: I’m informed by Bugis/Makasar people that these are objects of particularly dangerous spiritual power used by women as weapons - men fear them. They are kept as revered pusaka, though they seem to be uncommon.

So perhaps the use of a wooden hilt cup, though evidently rare, is meaningful.

9th July 2025, 04:55 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	I have a Sumatran Keris, which has an older wooden Pendokok-like object between blade and hilt. They have been together for some time, it is too small yet it embraces the Bungkul of hilt well, but that object likely is an emergency solution. As the blade has a very special Pamor and is well done for a Sumatran Bugis style blade, the original Pendokok may have had some value by itself. Attached Images

10th July 2025, 01:10 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 566	Balinese Keris Wood Selut Hi All, When I got this Bali keris it had this wood selut fitted to the horn kocet kocetan hilt and I added the uwer. I don’t know if the selut is original to the piece but looking at it from the new perspective caused by this thread, I can see the selut working on a Bugis keris with a Garuda hilt. Not to hijack this thread but, if the selut is inappropriate, I would appreciate seeing examples of what would be correct. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

10th July 2025, 10:39 PM	#8
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 38	Thanks all for your insight. I do wonder now if the wooden hilt cup on my Bugis keris is indeed original and that the use of wood instead of metal has some meaning or significance. I’m aware that wood and wooden objects can have spiritual power for the Bugis and Makasar in South Sulawesi; for example, I was once given, by a Bugis person, a piece of lightweight, whitish-yellow coloured wood about 30 cm long and that looks like a section of thin tree branch with bark removed - this innocuous looking object is said to be a very dangerous weapon that can cause a person’s death simply by touching them with it. There’s also this lightweight wooden “sword” (picture attached), a component of a back-strap loom used for weaving textiles: I’m informed by Bugis/Makasar people that these are objects of particularly dangerous spiritual power used by women as weapons - men fear them. They are kept as revered pusaka, though they seem to be uncommon. So perhaps the use of a wooden hilt cup, though evidently rare, is meaningful. Attached Images

9th July 2025, 02:28 AM	#1
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 38	Thanks Alan, I'm not sure it's a repair job since there is a separate area of the same lighter coloured wood on the hilt well below the part that would be damaged if they drilled the hole for the pesi too deep; this other piece of lighter coloured wood is oriented in the same direction as the first, which seems intentional. This should be visible in the very last photo I posted in my last post. It looks to me more like someone glued some different pieces of wood together and then carved the handle from that composite block of wood - suggesting the banding is a deliberate design feature. Regarding the hilt cup, now that I look at it, the hilt cup seems to be carved from the same lighter coloured wood that has been incorporated into the hilt, suggesting it is original rather than a recent/non-cultural replacement.

9th July 2025, 05:03 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Adam, I did not suggest that this was a repair of damage caused by the over drilling of a tang hole, I am merely relating what I have seen in the past. Something I have never seen is a hilt that has been made by gluing pieces of wood together & then carving those pieces of wood. Moreover, parts of the hilt appear to be genuinely old, other parts of it do not. What I believe I can see is that we have a hilt with some sections of very high contrast material, the lines of demarcation between these contrasting zones are very crisp & well defined, however, in some places it does appear that the grain of the wood continues across the lines of demarcation. There is something else that is also apparent, sections of the wood have quite high chatoyance. Further, the crest of the hilt appears to have been replaced, and although this would be the most simple of repairs, it has been very clumsily done, so perhaps we are looking at a couple of different people working on this hilt. The wooden fitting between the hilt & blade does not bear any resemblance at all to the usual metal fitting, additionally, the hilt sits on top of this wooden fitting not within it. Something about the sarung also seems a little strange to me, & that is that the metal collar that covers the joint between the top part of the sarung & the bottom part of the sarung is of a style that I have never seen, either in the hand, or in a photo. Now, let me put this upfront:- my knowledge of Bugis & Peninsula keris is only slight, but I have handled quite a lot of this style of keris over the years, going back into the 1950's there were many more of this type of keris available for purchase in Australia than there were Javanese & Balinese keris. The various variations in the norm that I believe I can see in this keris all have the appearance work done by a collector from a society other than the originating society. This opinion could well be incorrect, and if it can be demonstrated that it is incorrect then I will willingly withdraw it. If I had this hilt myself, I would carry out a detailed examination under magnification & I would not neglect an internal examination of the tang hole.

9th July 2025, 11:28 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I've seen that form in metal Gustav, one of the ones that I have seen, originally had a little cup & the turned stem had the same form as your wooden one, but that little cup had a big piece missing. The next time I visited the owner of that keris he had filed the metal cup down, so that only the stem & a tiny cup was left --- very similar to what you have shown in wood. I've also seen wooden mendaks on Javanese keris, & wooden wewer on Balinese keris, not all that uncommon & usually from an ebony. Seen the same thing in ivory. So the hilt ring can exist in wood & materials other than metal, but Adam's is the first wooden cup-form I've seen on a Bugis style keris, and the form of Adam's wooden hilt ring does not really echo any Bugis form that I can recall having seen. This, of course, does not mean other fittings like Adam's do not exist, it just means that I have yet to see another.

10th July 2025, 02:15 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I've seen exactly the same as your example Rob, but on a Bali keris, not Bugis, & I've seen that same selut style in horn as well as ebony. The form of this wooden one echos the usual metal Balinese form.