Some questions about Balinese hilt cup.

[Gustav]

Alan, thank you very much for your detailed response.

Regarding the "Kekandikan" from #6 - it seems to be a form from the island if Java, and could share a common ancestor with Balinese Kekandikan. I never was completely sure if that form is from Sunda or East Java. Perhaps and most likely both.

I have one specimen, which is pre-1850 and
could be pre-1800. The Gandar is tapering and fluted, Kruwingan going almost until the tip. There is a name Salempang being attached to this sheath form in West Java, but I have no possibilities to check it. There can be found a name for everything, of course. Hilt is unusual too, a similar hilt is depicted in a photo of Raden Adipati Aria Wiranotokusumo.

Related sheath forms we encounter also in Central Java.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gustav, I do not know a Javanese wrongko form that has the same or similar form to a Balinese kekandikan.

This is not to say that such a Javanese wrongko form has never existed, it is to say that I do not know of it, & have never seen any Javanese wrongko that is able to be classified as "kekandikan" using Balinese standards.

The kekandikan in post #6 would be classified as kekandikan in Bali, & I cannot see anything in the complete keris dress to indicate a Javanese origin.


The complete keris that you have shown in post #11 looks to be a mixture of component parts, I cannot relate it to any other keris I remember having seen.

Is it possible to detect a location of origin for the blade of the post #11 keris?

[Gustav]

Alan, yes, it differs from Balinese Kekandikan for sure, as differ the Central Javanese forms. But I am absolutely positive, that the sheath form shown in #6, which you called a Kekandikan, is of the same form as the one in #11.
My specimen as a whole was in Europe before 1850. The sheath parts belong together, and the sheath is original ensemble with the blade, which has sunken in a bit. It came together with the hilt, which has the same amount of patina, and likely is from the same region.

[Gustav]

The blade has some Pamor Akhodiat.

And an interesting detail of hilt - it is triangular, the top pentagonal.