Splendid silver Tulwar for translation and comments

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The scabbard drag on the item in question is a nod to the scabbard drags on British military swords. This Afghan sword is a local attempt to copy British style swords and scabbards. From my enquiries these modifications were done to existing swords and scabbards in the later 19thC when local Afghans were recruited for service with the British colonial forces. The similarity of the drags is obvious. I suspect the scabbard in question if not the complete sword is at the earliest late 19thC although I hate to say I'm with some others in that sometime in the 20thC seems more likely but I would like to be wrong.
Regards,
Norman.

[Sajen]

Like I said before, I know next to nothing about Persian and Indian blades. But here some observations:

a. The suspension rings show wear

b. The hilt has dents

c. The top scabbard shape is compressed

[Jim McDougall]

Some very interesting observations, especially on the apparent wear on some elements, which of course suggest age. As always, and as with the blades, it is possible older components used.

Robin brought up a curious dagger in his collection several years ago which is actually more like a dirk (14" blade) and the blade appears European from an old hanger. It has a clipped point, and familiar sickle marks, both suggesting 18th century Eastern European blade, likely shortened.

The mounts with hilt and scabbard fittings en suite in silver against the dramatic black material contrasting. .....and as he mentioned in that post the similarity to the Nepalese 'kothimora' kukri's. These silver mounted examples against colors of choice (often regimental) seem to favor the black which shows off the silver well.
These are more a presentation type weapon, typically to officers retiring or other significant circumstances.

What is remarkable is the style of craftmanship, and the gestalt which seems to have certain degree of similiarity. While this styling seems compellingly like the kothimora, could it be that the artisans producing these in the years of the British Raj (until 1947) might have created these kinds of weapons for broader scope of presentation type situations?

[francantolin]

Excuse the question,
did you test the silver quality on the hilt ?
Seems too shiny / nickel-white metal alloy

[Gonzoadler]

Originally Posted by francantolin

Excuse the question,
did you test the silver quality on the hilt ?
Seems too shiny / nickel-white metal alloy

It is that shiny because I polished it. Normally I don't do that with old pieces, but the patination wasn't pretty.

[Gonzoadler]

Some further pictures for better estimation of the age. At first the wood of the scabbard, which doesn't look recent:

[Gonzoadler]

At next the suspension bands. They show traces of wear. Of course not exessive, but I don't think that such a saber was worn every day by the owner:

[Gonzoadler]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Some very interesting observations, especially on the apparent wear on some elements, which of course suggest age. As always, and as with the blades, it is possible older components used.

Robin brought up a curious dagger in his collection several years ago which is actually more like a dirk (14" blade) and the blade appears European from an old hanger. It has a clipped point, and familiar sickle marks, both suggesting 18th century Eastern European blade, likely shortened.

The mounts with hilt and scabbard fittings en suite in silver against the dramatic black material contrasting. .....and as he mentioned in that post the similarity to the Nepalese 'kothimora' kukri's. These silver mounted examples against colors of choice (often regimental) seem to favor the black which shows off the silver well.
These are more a presentation type weapon, typically to officers retiring or other significant circumstances.

What is remarkable is the style of craftmanship, and the gestalt which seems to have certain degree of similiarity. While this styling seems compellingly like the kothimora, could it be that the artisans producing these in the years of the British Raj (until 1947) might have created these kinds of weapons for broader scope of presentation type situations?

Thank you for your input, that is the same I would say, too. An old blade with fittings from the later time of british colonial era in India.
The Afghan style could be a good sign of a production in northern India, like my other dirk-like piece could be from that region, too, because of the Kukri-style fittings.

[Gonzoadler]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
The scabbard drag on the item in question is a nod to the scabbard drags on British military swords. This Afghan sword is a local attempt to copy British style swords and scabbards. From my enquiries these modifications were done to existing swords and scabbards in the later 19thC when local Afghans were recruited for service with the British colonial forces. The similarity of the drags is obvious. I suspect the scabbard in question if not the complete sword is at the earliest late 19thC although I hate to say I'm with some others in that sometime in the 20thC seems more likely but I would like to be wrong.
Regards,
Norman.

Thank you for your input, too, very interesting. You don't have to hate to write that because I principally agree with you. I don't think that the fittings are very recent, but my first feeling wasn't around 1800, rather around 1900. Of course some decades later is also possible, but I would say at least first third of the 20th century. Much younger is not very plausible for me because I see no purpose for such a sword much later.

Kind regards
Robin

[Jim McDougall]

You are a very gracious man Robin. We all hate to be bearers of bad tidings but want to honest. It is a beautifully made sword regardless, and many collectors are aesthetic oriented seeing the artistic merits rather than historic elements. In cases like this, a little of both as the interpretations are often based on traditional and historic values.

[Interested Party]

Great point everyone. Really good discussion of an interesting item. Noone has mentioned something I find really interesting. The snake's head is on the inside (medial) aspect of the handle as it is carried. I guess that would make it more comfortable in the hand and could still be seen carried as a saber at an angle, but, still, it's an interesting design aspect to me.

The northern Indian/Afghan ideas seems a good one. The Afghans liked their swords in the 20th century to my understanding. The pommel shape looks familiar, is it a Deccan, Vijayanagar reference?