Schiavona pommel

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

It was a fairly common weapon amongst the Border Reivers. In the 15/1600s they were often employed as mercenaries overseas (in Europe) and that is precisely where and when the schiavona shows up.
The thing about the Reivers is that they were outlaws in this country (and in Scotland) and were forced to use whatever they could find that proved suitable; schiavonas must have been great prizes. Jim, that blade is extra special: can you provide a bit more detail please?
Our own Cathey - of HAS - researched and compiled what is almost certainly the definitive work on the schiavona; I recommend it for everyone.
Back to the reason I posted my image:
up till now I have seen a pommel with a hole, and without. When there is a hole it is in the top left corner and sometimes the guard is attached, sometimes not.
What I am seeing here is a hole where no guard fixing could ever occur, so what is it doing there? Is it purely an oddity, or does it indicate that the purpose was other than a fixing to the basket which would explain why it often wasn't.

It is because its composite, the pommel is turned around and belonged to another schiavona. Now it may well be that this pommel was changed during working life or later.
The wide leather over the ricasso these are rain gaurds, the schiavona was not meanth to be used in a pistol pointing finger forward grip like the rapier.
If you have handled several schiavones and tried this grip you will understand what i mean, its obvious.
kind regards
Ulfberth

[werecow]

But the ring usually attaches to the top corner of the pommel, not the bottom corner, right?

[werecow]

Perhaps this is of interest: Found this very similar example here. With an almost identical pommel, similar guard, and another blade with a waisted ricasso.

Schiavon from the funds of the Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore.

[urbanspaceman]

As it happens, I have a schiavona with a broad rapier blade and, although this hilt does have a thumb ring, it also feels quite comfortable wrapping a finger over the cross-guard. It would be more comfortable again if it was leather wrapped.
And even more again if it had a wasted ricasso.
Rain-guards are not uncommon though; quite right..


ps
That is the signature of the hilt smith: Grgr

[urbanspaceman]

Apologies, it is GRGUR
You may find longer version of this inscription: "Grgur majstor" - meaning Gregory artisan - indicating local hilt production in Dalmatia.

[ulfberth]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

As it happens, I have a schiavona with a broad rapier blade and, although this hilt does have a thumb ring, it also feels quite comfortable wrapping a finger over the cross-guard. It would be more comfortable again if it was leather wrapped.
And even more again if it had a wasted ricasso.
Rain-guards are not uncommon though; quite right..
Attachment 245465
Attachment 245466 Attachment 245467
ps
That is the signature of the hilt smith: Grgr

that is because that schiavona has a typical rapier blade wich is about more 2 cm narow than most schiavona blades. The more schiavonas you have held in your hand the better you can judge them.
I think i need to comment as it is, the schiavona you have with the rapier blade is not the norm, in fact the chances that its composite are high , not absolute but highly probable. Most schiavonas have broader blades almost twice as broad as yours , now if you are making asumptions from an item that is not the norm that is going to lead to conclusions that are not the norm. Exeptions have there place but need to be recognised for what they are and examined from that point of view.

[urbanspaceman]

I absolutely agree it is a composite.
In truth, the schiavona I always wanted featured a very broad double edged blade with a broad fuller or multiple fullers.
Somebody out there may recognize one of these.


The attraction of my sword blade was that hilt made me suspect that GRGUR was specifically commissioned to hilt that rapier blade and not that it was all simply put together by any random smith with any available suitable parts.
The quality of the blade and the significance of the markings at the ricasso were what made me think that. It has been suggested that those markings refer to the Circle of Twelve, but I haven't been able to figure out what that means. Were they the bodyguard of the Doge (No, not Elon!)
I'd still rather have my initial specification, but acquiring one in this fine condition did not prove possible at the time when this appeared.

[urbanspaceman]

I've been searching for my perfect schiavona and while this ticks all the boxes, except for museum quality, it has another feature that marks it as exceptional:

It would appear that there is absolutely no fixed rule regarding the hole, its position and/or its use.

fascinating stuff!