Dagger for identification and discussion

[Sajen]

Thank you Jim and Akanthus! Interesting thought that the blade could have been once much longer Jim! That would mean that it was once a so-called Hirschfaenger?
Thank you for giving an approximate age of the dagger Akanthus, great information, thank you very much. And yes, by such an age the blade form will look different now to how it may have looked once. Would be great to see similar examples of hunting daggers of this age.
Great thoughts and information gents, very appreciated!

Regards,
Detlef

[Akanthus]

Here some pictures of hunting knives of the 16th century i took from the great book "Hirschfänger, Zur historischen Entwicklung jagdlicher Seitenwaffen " written by Mr.Westphal.I assume ,that your knife isn't a shortened hunting sword, because quillons are missing and have never been there.

[kronckew]

Hauswehr, utility messer with nagel, also used for fighting in an emergency (in the hof brauhaus). Nice one.


(example Found on Google)

[Akanthus]

Hofbräuhaus.....

[M ELEY]

I like hofbrau hauses!

[Tordenskiold1721]

I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this is an accompanying dagger to an 16th century Langes Messer / Kriegsmesser.

[Sajen]

Thank you all for these very interesting thoughts. If I may summarize, the knife's handle shape and construction can be dated to at least the 17th century, possibly even the 16th. One theory is that it's a shortened blade, but I personally doubt that. Hence my previous question about possible comparison pieces. However, while the pieces shown have the same/similar handle shape and construction, the blade shape is different in all of them.
Again, thank you all for your thoughts and knowledge, my own knowledge in this area is very rudimentary.

Regards,
Detlef

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Tordenskiold1721

I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this is an accompanying dagger to an 16th century Langes Messer / Kriegsmesser.

This is a brilliant observation!! and Detlef, these topics are by no means typically in my field of study either....this is all a learning curve, and its amazing having everyone come in with observations.....outstanding!

Apparently the langes meisser (German =long knife) was a relatively short sword most commonly used in civilian sector, which seems rather unusual as described as a 'peasant' weapon. I think there may be more perspective here.

What is interesting is the protrusion from the guard, in this case the disc, is characteristic of the general design characteristics of the langes meisser, and called a 'nagel' (I had not known the term when Wayne mentioned it). This was a guard meant to meet the back of the hand in a fighting circumstance (aligning with Keiths comment just entered).
In my opinion, such weapons could be used in both domestic and defense purposes.
These type weapons from 16th century surely carried well into 17th in these kinds of pairings.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Tordenskiold1721

I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this is an accompanying dagger to an 16th century Langes Messer / Kriegsmesser.

Thank you! Your and Wayne's comment points me in the direction of "Bauerwehr", "Hauswehr" and "Rugger" as to which the knife under discussion can be named.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Hauswehr, utility messer with nagel, also used for fighting in an emergency (in the hof brauhaus). Nice one.


(example Found on Google)

Thank you Wayne, I think you are very correct!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Two more antique examples and an old drawing from Albrecht Dürer, "Three farmers in conversation", one farmer wearing a "Bauernwehr".