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#1 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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While this discussion ended as often the case with more questions than answers, it remains very much a mystery to me. The interesting suggestion of the similarity of the blade on this example (OP) to examples made in Solingen by Alex Coppel for Brazilian swords in 19th c. presented some rather disappointing potential.
More research into the Coppel 'brand' reveals the name occurred from 1821-1976, but the more modern, into 20th cent mostly bayonets. The note of the elliptical center fuller which is hollowed does resemble the blades of the M1853 and 1882-85 cavalry swords, however these have a notable ridge from the terminus of the fuller to point. With this example that does not seem the case. The blade is entirely unmarked and aging seems commensurate with sword overall. With this hilt, the conundrum continues. With the illustration (Reid, 1976) showing a Spanish sword with a blade marked CORRIENTES is most interesting. Corrientes made blades in Toledo/Madrid until his death 1733. This form hilt of course corresponds to the Maghrebi 'nimchas' of latter 17th c. which in turn seem to reflect earlier Italian hilt features. Notable as well is that the line drawing in Reid (op. cit.) of this sword includes the curious feature of the NOTCH in the blade, an anomaly which seems to have been a limited convention on Austrian swords of the 18th c. (Wagner, 1967). Like Wagner, Reid apparently thought this curious feature was worthy of inclusion in his drawing. With these notes pertaining to the character of my example (OP), it would seem that the hilt is considerably older than the blade. However the styling (such as striated shell guard) seems to favor earlier conventions favored in the Iberian sphere. In the shellguard 'cutlasses' attributed to Brazilian context, they have the same langet protrusion as this one, again supporting Brazilian and these regions as a source for the hilts. Further, the Cuban machete/sword known as guanabacoa (for city near Havana) are known with these kinds of shell hilts with striation. I would suspect the hilt on my example may be from these regions, probably Brazil, from 18th century, possibly mid to latter, and might be progenitor of the shell guard forms of early into latter 19th c. These full shell hilts seem to often carry British blades from 1814-20s, which likely derived from prevalent trade in South Seas (Caribbean)in those times. Portuguese presence in Brazil was of course long established, and dramatically increased with Napoleon invading Portugal in 1807, with Prince Regent Dom Joao (later King John (Joao VI) establishing seat of Portuguese government there. As British allies, the number of British blades in Brazil as in Carribean was part of the commerce. The machetes we have long termed 'Berber' which were actually from Cuba and Dominican Republic, seem to have often had old British M1796 light cavalry blades invariably reprofiled at the tip. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Tyneside. North-East England
Posts: 620
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Hey Jim, I got lost about two sentences down.
I see you are revisiting after much lengthy pondering, which is exactly what I have been doing. Keep it up, time often lends fresh perspectives, it did with me. ![]() |
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#3 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
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Thank you Keith! I appreciate the support as always, and honestly dont expect much with my loquacious soliloquys, but I write them anyway. It is indeed lengthy pondering, and my writing things out is simply the assembling of hours, days, weeks of intense research and my way of trying to comprehend it all.
I know you totally relate as your field of specialty on Shotley Bridge and English sword making with the mysterious grinding wheel machines of the darkest corners of this history is incredibly esoteric. With this its hard for others not as deeply into these things to follow or catch up, and often in our areas there is not the level of interest. But we keep going ![]() Hopefully its all the constructive understanding shared to the benefit of others who share our interests. |
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#4 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
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The more I look at the striated designs on these shell guards, as well as on the perpendicular guard on this example makes me think they are from the latter 18th century (as in this example) but in first half 19th century with the larger bowl styles. Perhaps the distinct 'bowl' form was toward 'cutlasses' as this type of hand protection was notably present in sea going edged weapons.
It seems that the 'guanabacoa' (near Havana) Cuban forms of 'machete' had quite a range of variation of course, and some had these striated designs on guards. The 'shell' guard was of course popular in Spanish hilt designs as the cockle shell was significant in Spanish material culture. While this example has been perplexing with all these variables, it is good to see it with new perspectives. The blade remains a mystery......but I dont think its British...perhaps a 'blank' ? from Germany, but the elliptical fuller seems atypical for earlier than 19th c. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 27th May 2025 at 04:09 PM. |
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#5 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
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Looking further at the guard orientation on this, the seemingly popular striations on the guard reflect the Spanish colonial influence, while it appears possible that British officers spadroons (c.1780s) with these kinds of guards might have also been in mind. Attached is 'five Ball' hilt design of 1780s which became well established, note the orientation of the crossguard. While this design was most popular, the extended guard often had other designs, mostly openwork vegetal motif, hearts and other elements. It would not seem far fetched that this style using the striations of shell guards would be out of place in latter 18th century Spanish context while aligned with the British influence. Also, we know the shell guard forms became popular in Brazil, and that in latter 18th into 19th the Portuguese and British were allied.
As far as I have known, in the nearly 30 years Ive owned this, there are no like examples. As noted, the hilt styling reflects the familiar 'hand nock' near pommel as well known in nimchas of North Africa, as well as the hilts of the shell guard espada (cutlasses?) of South America and Gulf colonies. It is also worthy of note that the inside langet of this example and the shell guard versions are shared, a feature not seen on other colonial swords of this period, perhaps further aligning this example with the shell guard cutlasses. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 28th May 2025 at 02:40 AM. |
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