Afghan Shashkas

ariel · 16th July 2006, 11:28 PM

Welcome to the Forum, Ausjulius!
Over here we have plenty of people interested in SE Asian weapons, but the Caucasian field is rather underpopulated. Glad to see another "Shashka Maniac".
Your points are very well taken and in agreement with the older sources. Hope to see your contributions more often.
Do you collect Caucasian/ Central Asian weapons?
We would all very much like to see your toys.

ariel · 17th July 2006, 02:31 PM

You are all correct, of course, to note the more ancient penetrations of Caucasian weapon traditions into Central Asia. The old Uzbeki swords are very reminescent of Shashkas, but there is a crucial difference: the "eared" pommels appear later in the development. This was, most likely, the most direct influence of the Caucasian Shashka (in it's Russian Imperial Cossack mutation) on the Central Asian swords. That's what I was talking about and these are the examples I showed. Lebedynsky calls them Pseudo-shashkas not for nothing!

I would love to get my hands on a really old Uzbeki sword, both in it's Shamshir and Shashka -like varieties, but to call them rare would be an understatement of the century: most were destroyed by the Russians when they occupied Central Asia first in the 1860-70s and when they suppressed the nationalist Basmach movement in the 1920s.

spiral · 17th July 2006, 04:54 PM

Fascinating pieces Ariel,

You mention thier size, What actual weights, dimensions & point of balance are they?

Thankyou.

Spiral

ausjulius · 18th July 2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

You are all correct, of course, to note the more ancient penetrations of Caucasian weapon traditions into Central Asia. The old Uzbeki swords are very reminescent of Shashkas, but there is a crucial difference: the "eared" pommels appear later in the development. This was, most likely, the most direct influence of the Caucasian Shashka (in it's Russian Imperial Cossack mutation) on the Central Asian swords. That's what I was talking about and these are the examples I showed. Lebedynsky calls them Pseudo-shashkas not for nothing!

I would love to get my hands on a really old Uzbeki sword, both in it's Shamshir and Shashka -like varieties, but to call them rare would be an understatement of the century: most were destroyed by the Russians when they occupied Central Asia first in the 1860-70s and when they suppressed the nationalist Basmach movement in the 1920s.

hi , there was actualy an uzbek site that pictured many old uzbek weaponry,, i think it was some form of government site,,
it had some pictures of uzbek amour and swords, including several older shashkas,,
some rather broad and curved in the blade, almost like some of the mongol and tarta swords,,
handles lookde as wood or horn, riveted,,
actualy in centeral asia these tiems are not that uncommon , , just hard to find , there is not much antiques bussiness in these areas , some amny times these items are kept in peopels homes, and many times not properly cared for,, or they are in huge state stokpiles of museam articles,,
ive seen some uzbek sheilds and lances for sale,, looked as greek style almost,, round and painted with emblems,, nicely made,, and good condition for there age,, which makes suspect theft form a museam ...

ariel · 18th July 2006, 11:01 AM

Can you give the address of the Uzbeki site as well as of other Central Asian or caucasian sites?

ausjulius · 18th July 2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Can you give the address of the Uzbeki site as well as of other Central Asian or caucasian sites?

hi , ill see if i can find it , it was about 4 years ago i saw it .... theres not many actualy ,, i know of some government type ethnic folk art pages,, ill see what i can find , ok,,

ausjulius · 19th July 2006, 12:51 AM

ok , couldint find the museam page.. but still heres some pics of some stuff,
http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/kaz/kaz3211.htm
http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/uzb/uzb3211.htm
http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/kir/kir3211.htm
http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/tur/tur3211.htm

uzbek knife, pichok
http://knifefoto.narod.ru/fmexican.htm
http://www.iranian.com/Arts/2001/March/Tajik/knife.html

http://search.stores.ebay.com/Centra...aselZ129243852
theses a guy on ebay selling them , theyer made form decent carbon steel , but not worth 40$ us

,, thjere is actualy a factory which makes them , i think also in kazakhstan , onetime or another they had a web address :P
sorry didnt have time to finde anything decent , when i do ill post it,

ariel · 19th July 2006, 04:27 AM

Ausjulius, where have you been all these years?!!!!
You are a treasure of information!
Are these weapons historically accurate? Kazakh sabers appear to have Tibetan motives (pommels, for example). One Turkmen sword (apparently, a museum piece) looks very Chinese.
I looked at the Amazon.com for the Atlas of Central Asian arts, Bishkek, 2002 (apparently multivolume) and could not find it.
Can you get it for me? Just let me know the price of the books and shipment to the US and I shall send you a check or Paypal it right away.
Any way to get my hands on the really old swords/daggers?
You can send me a Private Message.

ausjulius · 18th July 2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Welcome to the Forum, Ausjulius!
Over here we have plenty of people interested in SE Asian weapons, but the Caucasian field is rather underpopulated. Glad to see another "Shashka Maniac".
Your points are very well taken and in agreement with the older sources. Hope to see your contributions more often.
Do you collect Caucasian/ Central Asian weapons?
We would all very much like to see your toys.

hi thanks , i work in dagsetan in the factory, "KIZLYAR" situated in the city of kizlayr in northen dagestan , i am the "technical advisor" basicly the odd jobs guy,
we are the largest producter of hunting knives in russia , and we are, i think the largest single producer of damascus knives in the world,

we make damasucs swords, art knives pocket knives , ect ect ,we also have a nother department in st petersburg making european and russian style knives and swords,

i have afew, but havent been able to idulge my interest in collecting antiques, to much time dealing with new ones,,
in the capital mahachkahla there is amny antique shops selling weaponry , old pistols, swords, form dagestna and russia and other places, some have quite heigh prices, others quite decent , i saw a bulat kard blade for 500 rubles once :0 should have taken it ... ill post some pics later,, i may be in the capital soon and can take fotos of the museam , they have many very rare swords , including several dagestani zurkas, two bladed swords ,
they also have a very finely made shashka from kubachi, im told it is one of the finest condition and quality shashkas made in dagestan,
also i think some blades made form machine needled , making a very interesting pattern,
in kizlyar we have a small museam with some weaponry also,,

my personal facination is mongolian and other nomad waeponry ,kazakhstan ,kirgiz,, ect ect.. but its quite rare , the tarta and other uralic and siberian people also have fine swords

19th July 2006, 12:51 AM	#7
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 454	links to central asian weaponry, ok , couldint find the museam page.. but still heres some pics of some stuff, http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/kaz/kaz3211.htm http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/uzb/uzb3211.htm http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/kir/kir3211.htm http://intangiblenet.freenet.uz/en/tur/tur3211.htm uzbek knife, pichok http://knifefoto.narod.ru/fmexican.htm http://www.iranian.com/Arts/2001/March/Tajik/knife.html http://search.stores.ebay.com/Centra...aselZ129243852 theses a guy on ebay selling them , theyer made form decent carbon steel , but not worth 40$ us ,, thjere is actualy a factory which makes them , i think also in kazakhstan , onetime or another they had a web address :P sorry didnt have time to finde anything decent , when i do ill post it,

16th July 2006, 11:28 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Welcome to the Forum, Ausjulius! Over here we have plenty of people interested in SE Asian weapons, but the Caucasian field is rather underpopulated. Glad to see another "Shashka Maniac". Your points are very well taken and in agreement with the older sources. Hope to see your contributions more often. Do you collect Caucasian/ Central Asian weapons? We would all very much like to see your toys.

17th July 2006, 02:31 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You are all correct, of course, to note the more ancient penetrations of Caucasian weapon traditions into Central Asia. The old Uzbeki swords are very reminescent of Shashkas, but there is a crucial difference: the "eared" pommels appear later in the development. This was, most likely, the most direct influence of the Caucasian Shashka (in it's Russian Imperial Cossack mutation) on the Central Asian swords. That's what I was talking about and these are the examples I showed. Lebedynsky calls them Pseudo-shashkas not for nothing! I would love to get my hands on a really old Uzbeki sword, both in it's Shamshir and Shashka -like varieties, but to call them rare would be an understatement of the century: most were destroyed by the Russians when they occupied Central Asia first in the 1860-70s and when they suppressed the nationalist Basmach movement in the 1920s.

17th July 2006, 04:54 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Fascinating pieces Ariel, You mention thier size, What actual weights, dimensions & point of balance are they? Thankyou. Spiral

18th July 2006, 11:01 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Can you give the address of the Uzbeki site as well as of other Central Asian or caucasian sites?

19th July 2006, 04:27 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ausjulius, where have you been all these years?!!!! You are a treasure of information! Are these weapons historically accurate? Kazakh sabers appear to have Tibetan motives (pommels, for example). One Turkmen sword (apparently, a museum piece) looks very Chinese. I looked at the Amazon.com for the Atlas of Central Asian arts, Bishkek, 2002 (apparently multivolume) and could not find it. Can you get it for me? Just let me know the price of the books and shipment to the US and I shall send you a check or Paypal it right away. Any way to get my hands on the really old swords/daggers? You can send me a Private Message.