Interesting sword for comment

S.Al-Anizi · 16th July 2006, 06:43 PM

While certainly you may get some organic pitch residue from the tang and carbon date it. This will only get you date, which may or may not resemble the age of the blade itself, as you said. The problem is, We have not seen or known of any mid-eastern swords which use this type of hilt construction. Arab broadswords used some kind of peening, with some rivets at times. Later arab sabres used a complex kind of hilt construction alongside rivets and wire wrapping. The only swords that I know of with used pitch adhesive for attachment from the mid-east are the Qajar era, persian "revival" swords, although the dimensions and "style" of your blade is totally different to those swords. My thought is that this sword originally had a proper tang, that was altered and reduced at some point of its lifetime to allow for a strange hilt construction. This blade seems to resemble arab swords from the early Islamic era, to late abbasid, yet the tip it different. Yet it still looks like mamluk 15th century sword blades.

S.Al-Anizi · 16th July 2006, 06:45 PM

Rick,

If you're really interested with this, have you considered using the Japanese way of dating blades according to tang corrosion. I dont know but it may work.

IainN · 16th July 2006, 09:53 PM

Thought this might be possibly interesting to the discussion. Certain similarities caught my eye. From the calendar of Georgian weapons just posted by Rivkin. Labeled as 12-13th century. The hilt looks like it could possibly work on the type of tang on the blade under discussion. Of course I can't see if it's peened or not...

Anyways though it was worth adding to the mix of possibilities.

S.Al-Anizi · 16th July 2006, 10:01 PM

Ian, I dont think that this sword is possibly of Georgian origin. First, its wootz, I dont know if Georgian smiths worked with that metal or not, but I dont think so. Also, the tang on Rick's blade is too short for such a hilt.

Rivkin · 17th July 2006, 12:33 AM

Until 12th century Tbilisi was an arab colony; Caucasus was a battlefield between arabs, locals, northern steppe people - alans and khazars and later turkoman-seljukes.

Attached are arab-influenced christian georgians, VI-XIth centuries, and an arab from arabia-iraq, XIth century. These are the nearly the only swords I was able to find that virtually do not taper. And yes, georgians did use wootz.

16th July 2006, 09:53 PM	#3
IainN Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 31	Thought this might be possibly interesting to the discussion. Certain similarities caught my eye. From the calendar of Georgian weapons just posted by Rivkin. Labeled as 12-13th century. The hilt looks like it could possibly work on the type of tang on the blade under discussion. Of course I can't see if it's peened or not... Anyways though it was worth adding to the mix of possibilities. Attached Images

17th July 2006, 12:33 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Until 12th century Tbilisi was an arab colony; Caucasus was a battlefield between arabs, locals, northern steppe people - alans and khazars and later turkoman-seljukes. Attached are arab-influenced christian georgians, VI-XIth centuries, and an arab from arabia-iraq, XIth century. These are the nearly the only swords I was able to find that virtually do not taper. And yes, georgians did use wootz. Attached Images

16th July 2006, 06:43 PM	#1
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	While certainly you may get some organic pitch residue from the tang and carbon date it. This will only get you date, which may or may not resemble the age of the blade itself, as you said. The problem is, We have not seen or known of any mid-eastern swords which use this type of hilt construction. Arab broadswords used some kind of peening, with some rivets at times. Later arab sabres used a complex kind of hilt construction alongside rivets and wire wrapping. The only swords that I know of with used pitch adhesive for attachment from the mid-east are the Qajar era, persian "revival" swords, although the dimensions and "style" of your blade is totally different to those swords. My thought is that this sword originally had a proper tang, that was altered and reduced at some point of its lifetime to allow for a strange hilt construction. This blade seems to resemble arab swords from the early Islamic era, to late abbasid, yet the tip it different. Yet it still looks like mamluk 15th century sword blades.

16th July 2006, 06:45 PM	#2
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Rick, If you're really interested with this, have you considered using the Japanese way of dating blades according to tang corrosion. I dont know but it may work.

16th July 2006, 10:01 PM	#4
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Ian, I dont think that this sword is possibly of Georgian origin. First, its wootz, I dont know if Georgian smiths worked with that metal or not, but I dont think so. Also, the tang on Rick's blade is too short for such a hilt.