black and white blades

[B.I]

hi,
on the chevron blades, i would have to disagree with what has been said (also that stated by rawson/pant/fiegel). all the examples i have seen have been made from seperate billets of steel and pattern-welded steel, skillfully joined together. these all seem (in my humble opinion) to be 19thC, and not any earlier. both fiegel and pant took their dating from rawson, who placed a 17thC date based on the excample in the V&A. there are no accession records, nor further info on this particular sword, so the dating was based on his own opinion. i dont think that particular blade can date any earlier than 19th, and it clearly shows evidence of being constructed from these seperate pieces, as do all the others i've seen. i cant speak for pants example, but fiegels definately was. hopefully jens will tell us how his piece is made.
attached is a sword i once owned, which shows the join.
i am sure that if any of these swords were used as a sword should, they would shatter into pieces (an expensive experiment). they were a bladesmith showing off and made for decorative use only.
of course, tim could be right in his theory, but i have never seen evidence of it so far. the only time i saw something close, was from a disreputable english dealer who attempted to mask off chevrons onto a pattern-welded blade, in an attempt to decieve. luckily, the job done was as bad as his reputation :-)

[Tim Simmons]

The chevrons on this blade appear quite different to the first example. Much tighter in form and there is less contrast. As we can see seperate pieces of steel. However I still think the first example is iron scale, remember I did suggest this was more of a decorative/display sword in the original post. The use of clay as a heat shield is a fact in Japanese sword making and I can see no reason why under the right skilled hand it could not be used to make patterns, after all Japanese swords are not known for shattering.

[B.I]

hi tim,
you may be right, that this process was used, but i still dont think it was in this particular case. it has been some time since i saw the sword that jens owns, but i am sure (almost positive) that if it was of a different construction to the pieces i consider 'normal' chevrons, then this would have stuck in my memory. no, i feel it too was made from different billets. it is unusual, in that the first section is 'lengthened' and the chevrons are not even all the way along the blade. also, i played with the image i posted, in order to enhance what was blurred. from a distance, you would not notice these join marks. also, with age and polishing, they tend to disappear.
as far as i am aware, clay heat treatments were not really adopted in india, but this isnt my field (metallurgy) so maybe i am wrong. all the accounts i have read tend to concentrate more on wootz, as this was particular to india and so of recordable interest to the europeans over there. the indians infuriatingly used a traditional approach to bladesmithing, which never changed throughout centuries (annoying from a dating point of view). these chevron swords were completely different to these traditions, which is partly why i date them to the latter half of the 19thC, when the bladesmiths began to be recognised within the durbars and european led 'competitions'. these events brought out the best and gave these smiths a chance to show their true abilities.
in my last post, i was more critical of the dating used for these pieces, than the process (or meant to be). but, this too, is just a specualtive opinion.
as i said, hopefully jens will pipe in and let us know for sure.

[Tim Simmons]

Yes we need Jens to provide some good pictures. In my opinion to weld such shacky chevrons into such a regular sword is super human unless they did it like the Incas laid stone blocks.

[Lew]

Chevron patterned blades at least the few I have seen and held have blades that are welded in alternating segments using two types of steel. These blades are strictly for show in my opinion the blade would snap if it was ever used in combat.



Lew

[Jens Nordlunde]

Detail of the blade attached. I have heard about the wax treatment, but I have never heard about the clay treatment being used in India - to be quite honest, I have never heard about the clay treatment.