Very unusual presentation kris/keris—Malay?

[Ian]

Thanks Detlef. Why do you say "clearly a Malay sundang?" I came to that conclusion by noting that it was not a Moro kris (based on the negative features that I listed). Do you have affirmative features that lead you to think it is clearly a Malay kris?

What do you make of the greneng treatment in your assessment of age for a Malay kris?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Thanks Detlef. Why do you say "clearly a Malay sundang?" I came to that conclusion by noting that it was not a Moro kris (based on the negative features that I listed). Do you have affirmative features that lead you to think it is clearly a Malay kris?

What do you make of the greneng treatment in your assessment of age for a Malay kris?

Hi Ian,

Mainly the points you listed that it isn't a kris from the Philippines, the overall appearance.
For the second question I'll leave it to others like Gustav to answer!

Artzi isn't a specialist when it comes to South-East-Asian weapons, it wasn't the first wrong description he had given.

For example:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=artzi
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=timor

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Sajen

... Artzi isn't a specialist when it comes to South-East-Asian weapons, it wasn't the first wrong description he had given. ...

Yes, we can all make a mistake or two. I have been impressed, however, by the volume and diversity of edged weapons that Artzi has sold over the years. The breadth of his first-hand experience is remarkable.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Yes, we can all make a mistake or two.

Let the one who is free from mistakes cast the first stone!

[Ian]

This is another kris from Oriental-Arms old site. The descripti0n provided is as follows:

A classical Moro Kris sword, with an old, probably 18 C. blade. 20 ½ inches long, straight, with two central fullers and forged from pattern welded steel. Later, probably late 19 C. wood handle bound with fibers and three white metal bands, and set with two light horn panels on the cockatoo shaped pommel. Two copper clamps (Baca-Baca). Later wood scabbard with painted black tip. Total length (in scabbard) 26 inches. Very good condition. Blade with few forging flaws and edge nicks.

There are some style differences from the original post above, but a lot of strong similarities too.

[kai]

Hello Ian,

This blade style is usually found on the Malay peninsula. This is corroborated for the second example by the scabbard foot which is a Melayu feature (peninsula or coastal Sumatra). I'd place this blade into the second half of the 19th c.(or a tad later); hilt has been reworked/restored.

The quality of these blades can vary quite a bit. The first blade exhibits pretty poor cold work and is most likely fairly young (despite the hole in the central fuller - probably bad judgement by the worker). In this case, I'm not even positive that it represents genuine native work (vs. Madura/etc.). Fittings are also modern.

Regards,
Kai