Sword Identification?

[Jim McDougall]

Great observations Norman!!! as always!

Im glad we are in accord on the blade, which seems 18th century European saber form recalling 'montmorency' section of latter part. Well noted on the guard, which does seem German and of the stirrup guard 'Blucher' (M1811) type. The smaller langet and as you note the portapee slot seems more to correspond to later versions of these stirrup hilts which actually were in use in the German army into WWI period, and typically 'lighter'.

With your confirmation of probable German hilt guard, I feel the potential for German East Africa assembly of these components and the wood grip, and likely in colonial period of 1880s + if indeed regionally composed.

The Ethiopian 'gurade' I posted illustrates the propensity toward European influences on native weapons in these dynamic colonial times, where often native forces served as auxiliary to the national military occupying forces.
Often in colonial situations, officers of the occupying military forces also took to specialized swords reflecting local styles joined with regulation components worn as field weapons. These cases prevailed in India where regulation hilts often had Indian or Persian blades and vice versa where many Indian swords had British blades.

These are some of the most fascinating areas of sword collecting with these anomalies being of key historic interest!

Pirate Lady, by your psuedonym, I would note, the regions of Africa which seem suggested include the areas of Comoros Islands and Madagascar where pirate activity prevailed in earlier centuries. Trade activity still active of course, as Norman mentioned, and the guard at least may have come from a maritime weapon with rack number so associated.
All speculative, but of course, fun to imagine.

[piratelady]

Jim; You would be correct with the pirate connection. I actually own a pirate museum in Florida. This sword came in with a 19th century Thomas & Co British Naval Boarding Axe, dated 1898. These were the only 2 weapons in a very small sale. So I assume the estate they came from had something to do with a person in the navy. So the assumption that the sword was from some type of sea service would make sense.

[Radboud]

Gentlemen, let’s remain objective with eyes wide open before we jump into seeing pirate treasure around every corner.

What do we know?
The hilt is most certainly a late version from one of the blucher m1811 family. Late because, as Jim notes it has the narrow langets. This style of sabre was in service with the German Army from about 1848 to the beginning of WWII. It has also been used by other nations (it might still be in service as a dress sword).

Of note is that there are no markings on the hilt. If it saw German service we would expect to see unit markings on the guard along the bottom of the langet. The number we see on the bottom of the knuckle bow is very close to the peen and on the original sword would have been hidden by the pommel cap. This points to it being a manufacturers number, later German swords like the IOD89 had individual parts numbered to keep them together during assembly or repair.

Blucher sabres 1809 - 1945:


Reichswehr ArtillerieSabel n/A 1914-1945:


According to the article these photos are from, the main difference between the new artillerie sabre and the earlier ones is the removal of the hole for the sword knot sometime during WWI. As Jim has noted, the sword hole for the sword knot in this guard is smaller than the standard ones; this could indicate later production or service with another nation.

The blade.
This is an interesting one. I agree that my first instinct was also late 18th Cent based on the fullers running to the tip. But the full length narrow fuller also reminded me of the m1845. However now that we know that it is very short, 24 inch, (about 60cm?) I suspect it could have come from a hunting hanger, or a blade that has been cut down. I’d want better photos of the tip before making a call on that.

Unfortunately, hunting hangers were civilian so came with a vast array of different blade types so this one could be anywhere from 18th Cent to late 19th Cent, we just can’t be certain without markings and better photos.

The grip.
This one is the deal breaker for me and marks this as a newer assembly, it’s too fresh for 19th Cent. There is considerable ‘patina’ on the blade and guard. With such neglect I would expect to see much darker wood with chips and cracks in it. None of that is present here. However it has been assembled with care and they have clearly been together for a long time, but we are now in the 2020’s even something assembled in the 1940s or 60s was 60-80 years ago, plenty of time for something to show signs of age.

All that to remind us to remember to apply Occam's Razor to these situations, when presented with multiple assumptions, the simplest is most often the correct one.

But while we are running thought experiments, I think this is a WWI era trench raiders knife / sword made from a broken French officers sword and a German hilt.