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Old 20th May 2024, 10:19 PM   #1
A. G. Maisey
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Ian, I believe that I can provide some sort of a response to your rather broad question, but at the moment I do not have time, and to address the matter adequately would require a lot of words, sufficient words to fill a pretty lengthy paper.

I would suggest a reading of a couple of my articles, the earlier one, "Origin" needs a re-write, but the necessary foundation is still adequate.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/maisey/index.html

The second article, "Interpretation" I'm still more or less happy with, for as far it goes.

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/inter...e-keris-page-1

There is another piece of writing I did & that is included in a book:-

https://sunypress.edu/Books/T/The-Cu...sonal-Objects2

my contribution is chapter 6:- "The Journey of the Keris", this piece of writing goes some way towards addressing the Islamic adoption of the keris, but it is far less than is required, I needed to comply with certain requirements.

These three pieces of writing, taken together give a reasonable account of the development of the Javanese keris, & to get to the place where I feel that you wish to be you do need what can be found in this published work.

The question you have asked is really immense, but when I get time I'll have a crack at writing something that might provide some sort of an answer.
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Old 21st May 2024, 02:56 AM   #2
Ian
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Thanks Alan. I appreciate you are particularly busy and that a response would take some time. I will look at the references you provided. Thanks for responding to my request.
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Old 21st May 2024, 04:21 AM   #3
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Didn't take long Ian, about 20 minutes this morning & 30 minutes after lunch.

Helps if one already has the language, then it becomes no more difficult than looking up words in an English dictionary.

Thing is this, once all the mystique of exotic sounding words is taken away it all becomes easier, once we understand that the keris words only echo words in common use, and that Javanese language relies on likening things to other common things, everything just falls into place.

For example, the word "sogokan" is the word for a long stick, or pole used to poke things, if your drain is blocked you go looking for a sogokan, but the symbolism of the sogokan is that of the lingga, which is of course symbolic of Siwa (Shiva).

Something else that it is handy to know is that Javanese people do not like speaking in direct terms, so you often need to interpret what is said in normal speech to something else. When we speak of ourselves in Javanese, we use our personal name, ie, "I'm going into town" is spoken as "Alan will go into town".

Its a whole different way of thinking.

Perhaps an acceptable way to begin on this exercise might be to strip away as much of the obscurity of language as we can, so here is a word list, I have used a number of dictionaries, so you have dictionary meanings, not my own ideas:-

praen --- features, countenance (Javanese)
sekar --- sekar (Jv.-- krama for kembang)
kacang --- bean, peanut (Jv.)
telele --- correctly:- tlale --- elephant trunk (Jv.)
gajah --- elephant (Jv.)
jalen --- (jali) --- a kind of grass, millet (Jv.)
ilat --- tongue; also --- a peg to control water flow
baya --- crocodile (Jv.)
lambe --- lip, edge, rim (Jv.)
jalu --- spur on cock's foot (Jv.)
memet --- intricate, complicated, joined into one, difficult to grasp, mixed
together from separate parts (Jv.)
ron --- leaf (Jv. -- krama for godhong)
dha --- a letter of the Javanese alphabet
nunut --- to ride together with (Jv.)
cocor --- beak (Jv.)
sira --- correctly:- sirah (Jv. -- krama for endhas)
cecak --- small house lizard (Jv.)
kepet --- unaccented "e" -- hand fan, accented "e"'s --- caudal fin, tail
fin, second "e" only accented -- thin, empty (Jv.)
urang --- shrimp, prawn (Jv.)
kanyut --- to get carried away (by a current) (Jv.)
buntu --- blocked at one end (Jv.)
padakin --- unknown, perhaps "pidakan"? pedal, to step on (Jv.)
wawungan --- unknown, perhaps "wuwungan"? "wuwung" = rooftop (Jv.)
greneng --- a complaint, but specific to keris:- a small crooked ornament
it seems likely that originally this word was "glendheng",
which means long uncut stalks of bambu or wood, but over
time it has become corrupted to "greneng" (Jv.)
thingil --- something that stands higher than its surroundings (Jv.)
ri --- abbreviation of "eri", a thorn or a fish bone (Jv.)
pandhan --- pandanus (Jv.)
pusaka --- heirloom, revered object, inheritance, family rice field (Jv.)
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Old 21st May 2024, 04:29 AM   #4
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Just one more comment:- a Javanese -English dictionary is useful, Robson & Wibisono is maybe the best, but this only goes so far, what we really need is several Javanese to Javanese dictionaries, & maybe a Javanese to Bahasa Indonesia & an Old Javanese and/or Kawi as well.
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Old 22nd May 2024, 12:31 PM   #5
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Thanks again Alan! Your understanding of the language goes far beyond dictionaries. Much appreciated.

Here is another URL that I found helpful for its descriptions of the history of the keris and the naming of its features: https://indosphere.medium.com/keris-...a-355326550e8d According to this site,
Quote:
Keris are also indigenous to Malaysia, Thailand, Brunei, Singapore and the Philippines where it is known as kalis, with sword variants.
The keris is widely distributed throughout the areas of influence of the Majapahit Empire, and in the Cham areas of Cambodia, who are heirs to the ancient Shiva-Buddha religion that once spanned all of Southeast Asia. It also appeared in the Dong-Son culture of Vietnam as early as 300 B.C.
In the case of Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam, I believe this refers mainly to the use of the keris buda in the remote past, rather than the modern form of keris first associated with the Majapahit period in Indonesia, although southern Thailand in particular still has considerable Malaysian influence.

Last edited by Ian; 22nd May 2024 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Added URL
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Old 22nd May 2024, 01:11 PM   #6
A. G. Maisey
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Thank you Ian.
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