Comments on my father's Keris

okhba3 · 11th July 2006, 03:12 AM

Hi Pak Alam Shah and Pak Muhdi,
thanks for the explanation and comments. That's a really good summary. My father was born in Cirebon and indeed got the Keris when he was there.
Further on the Tangguh Mataram part and the link provided, I would presume that this Keris is from the second Mataram period (17th to 18th Century) ?

nechesh · 11th July 2006, 03:55 AM

Hi Okhba, welcome to the forum. When your father gets a chance i hope he might be able to make some clear, in focus and up close images of this keris. It appears nice, but i am not convinced it is of the age of 17th or 18th century. Keep in mind also that tangguh is an estimate and a classification. It could be problematic if we attempt to apply it to any specific dates. Sometimes blades fall into a particular tangguh, but weren't crafted until some time after the historical period of that kingdom. It is not necessarily correct to equate tangguh with the actual dating of a keris. Also, there is often an overlapping of influences in most keris. Experts judging tangguh often need to weigh whether a blade is more one tangguh than another when coming up with their assessment. Often experts will disagree. Sometimes even the same expert will give one tangguh at one time and a different one at another. I don't know enough about how to judge tangguh to know if that is the case with your father's keris. It does appear to be a nice keris though.
Have you seen this keris yourself firsthand. I ask because in the photos the kinatah looks very coppery. I wonder whether the color might be off on the photos, or if this might be gold with a very high copper level (rose gold?) or whether iot is gold at all. I suspect it has gold in it, but from the pictures i just can't tell. Better pictures would be helpful.

okhba3 · 11th July 2006, 04:59 AM

Hi Nechesh,
I have already seen the Keris myself a couple of times. Last time I saw it is about a year ago, that was when I started this thread. At the time my father would like to give the Keris to me, but I was going to move to Sydney, Australia and I'm afraid it will be difficult to bring the Keris with me. I supposed the Keris would be quarantined. Have you guys had any experience bringing a Keris with you by airplane?
I like the Keris myself but the problem is I cannot tell whether it is gold or copper because I don't have enough knowledge. My father is 73 years old and his eyesight capability is decreasing, so it's difficult to ask him to take a proper photograph. I probably should do it myself when I have time.

Mudi · 11th July 2006, 05:18 AM

In Indonesia we can fly with keris. If wrapped in sarong the pilot will take it up with him. After landing he will give you your keris.

For shipping usually a sealed wood box is need and then no problem. You can ask the big shipper like FEDX, TNT, and DHL about that.

kai · 11th July 2006, 09:28 AM

Hello,

Australia has pretty tight weapon laws, so it may be wise to contact Alan Maisey who will be able to tell in detail what import requirements need to be met with.

However, the most problematic part will be the ivory hilt - you'll need a lot of time and paperwork (as well as associated fees) every time you want to cross an international border with it (of course, this also applies for shipping). I'd certainly didn't want to risk confiscation of a family pusaka...

Regards,
Kai

okhba3 · 16th July 2006, 03:55 PM

Thanks Mudi and Kai,
I guess I'll keep the Keris in Indonesia for now.

Alam Shah · 11th July 2006, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okhba3

Hi Pak Alam Shah and Pak Muhdi,
thanks for the explanation and comments. That's a really good summary. My father was born in Cirebon and indeed got the Keris when he was there.
Further on the Tangguh Mataram part and the link provided, I would presume that this Keris is from the second Mataram period (17th to 18th Century) ?

Tangguh is a very subjective issue, but based on the consultants opinion, it's should be second Mataram. Looking at the blade.... hmmm, perhaps clearer pictures would help.

11th July 2006, 03:55 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Okhba, welcome to the forum. When your father gets a chance i hope he might be able to make some clear, in focus and up close images of this keris. It appears nice, but i am not convinced it is of the age of 17th or 18th century. Keep in mind also that tangguh is an estimate and a classification. It could be problematic if we attempt to apply it to any specific dates. Sometimes blades fall into a particular tangguh, but weren't crafted until some time after the historical period of that kingdom. It is not necessarily correct to equate tangguh with the actual dating of a keris. Also, there is often an overlapping of influences in most keris. Experts judging tangguh often need to weigh whether a blade is more one tangguh than another when coming up with their assessment. Often experts will disagree. Sometimes even the same expert will give one tangguh at one time and a different one at another. I don't know enough about how to judge tangguh to know if that is the case with your father's keris. It does appear to be a nice keris though. Have you seen this keris yourself firsthand. I ask because in the photos the kinatah looks very coppery. I wonder whether the color might be off on the photos, or if this might be gold with a very high copper level (rose gold?) or whether iot is gold at all. I suspect it has gold in it, but from the pictures i just can't tell. Better pictures would be helpful. Last edited by nechesh; 11th July 2006 at 04:26 AM.

11th July 2006, 03:12 AM	#1
okhba3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 10	Hi Pak Alam Shah and Pak Muhdi, thanks for the explanation and comments. That's a really good summary. My father was born in Cirebon and indeed got the Keris when he was there. Further on the Tangguh Mataram part and the link provided, I would presume that this Keris is from the second Mataram period (17th to 18th Century) ?

11th July 2006, 04:59 AM	#3
okhba3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 10	Hi Nechesh, I have already seen the Keris myself a couple of times. Last time I saw it is about a year ago, that was when I started this thread. At the time my father would like to give the Keris to me, but I was going to move to Sydney, Australia and I'm afraid it will be difficult to bring the Keris with me. I supposed the Keris would be quarantined. Have you guys had any experience bringing a Keris with you by airplane? I like the Keris myself but the problem is I cannot tell whether it is gold or copper because I don't have enough knowledge. My father is 73 years old and his eyesight capability is decreasing, so it's difficult to ask him to take a proper photograph. I probably should do it myself when I have time.

11th July 2006, 05:18 AM	#4
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	In Indonesia we can fly with keris. If wrapped in sarong the pilot will take it up with him. After landing he will give you your keris. For shipping usually a sealed wood box is need and then no problem. You can ask the big shipper like FEDX, TNT, and DHL about that.

11th July 2006, 09:28 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello, Australia has pretty tight weapon laws, so it may be wise to contact Alan Maisey who will be able to tell in detail what import requirements need to be met with. However, the most problematic part will be the ivory hilt - you'll need a lot of time and paperwork (as well as associated fees) every time you want to cross an international border with it (of course, this also applies for shipping). I'd certainly didn't want to risk confiscation of a family pusaka... Regards, Kai

16th July 2006, 03:55 PM	#6
okhba3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 10	Thanks Mudi and Kai, I guess I'll keep the Keris in Indonesia for now.