Karabela - the nicest you have seen

Valjhun · 10th July 2006, 12:38 PM

It looks that my friend misspleled the family name... it is not Bahtiany but rather Batthyány.

From Wikipedia: Batthyány is the name of an old distinguished Hungarian Magnate family.They were first mentioned in documents in 1398 and had their ancestral seat in Güssing in the Austrian region Burgenland since 1522. In 1570, Balthasar Batthyány transformed the seat of the family, Güssing, into the center of protestantism in the region. His descendant however, Adam Batthyány (* 1610, † 1659) was catholic and founded a Franciscan monastery in Güssing (in the south of the present-day Burgenland). Lajos Batthyány became the first Prime Minister of Hungary during the revolution of 1848 and was executed in Pest in 1849. After 1945 the Batthyány family was largely expropriated in the then socialist countries, although they kept some important property in the Burgenland, Austria. They had also properties near the city of Maribor (Slovenia).

And there is their coat of arms... It is a swan

looks my friend was right attributing that sword to that precise noble family and the colour of the jewels as Tim stated indeed represents the hungarian flag. I guess that it was confiscated and kept some 60 years ago by some yugoslav communist officer or aktivist.

It seems that the guy on the photo below is wearing a verry similar collar, and BTW that is not a knightly order collar, it is a mantle bearer.

What about the age? I would think about 1849 looking at the nationalistic hungarian colors on it

The price is faaar above my current finance situation. If anybody is interested I can arrange a meeting.

Valjhun · 10th July 2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

second half of the 17th century
Oil on canvas (transferred to new canvas), 234 x 140 cm
Historical Picture Gallery, Hungarian National Museum, Budapest. The represented persosn is probably Kristóf Batthyányi II (1632-1685), the ealdorman of Vas County, High Captain of the Cis-Danaubian territories.

Ehm.. look at the sword that guy is bearing....

Is it possible that it is the same sword?

Rather · 10th July 2006, 03:48 PM

Dont think so, in my oppinion the painting is older than the sword. The style rocaille elements on the hilt are more likely mid of 18th century.
But the attribution to the Batthyány family is most likely, the coat of arms gives the clue, but it is still a pelican, not a swan...

Definitely a sword for a museum collection!

ham · 10th July 2006, 06:35 PM

Very handsome sword, but not Polish and certainly not a karabela type. This is Hungarian Revival work of the 1850s-1890s. It represents an artistic approach on the part of ethnic Hungarians to react to Austrian dominance at the Austro-Hungarian Court.

Ham

Valjhun · 11th July 2006, 04:59 PM

And here is the blade.

S.Al-Anizi · 11th July 2006, 05:48 PM

A most beautiful blade! I love to see such european motifs.

ariel · 12th July 2006, 12:41 AM

A sumptuous sword! I would love to have it but would not be willing to sell my car for it.
If I were a descendant of the family... that's a different ballgame: Mark once told us a fascinating story about his hunt for the sword of his great-great-grandfather (a couple more "greats"?)
It is either a museum piece or a family heiloom. Anything else is not justified, IMHO.

10th July 2006, 12:38 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	It looks that my friend misspleled the family name... it is not Bahtiany but rather Batthyány. From Wikipedia: Batthyány is the name of an old distinguished Hungarian Magnate family.They were first mentioned in documents in 1398 and had their ancestral seat in Güssing in the Austrian region Burgenland since 1522. In 1570, Balthasar Batthyány transformed the seat of the family, Güssing, into the center of protestantism in the region. His descendant however, Adam Batthyány (* 1610, † 1659) was catholic and founded a Franciscan monastery in Güssing (in the south of the present-day Burgenland). Lajos Batthyány became the first Prime Minister of Hungary during the revolution of 1848 and was executed in Pest in 1849. After 1945 the Batthyány family was largely expropriated in the then socialist countries, although they kept some important property in the Burgenland, Austria. They had also properties near the city of Maribor (Slovenia). And there is their coat of arms... It is a swan looks my friend was right attributing that sword to that precise noble family and the colour of the jewels as Tim stated indeed represents the hungarian flag. I guess that it was confiscated and kept some 60 years ago by some yugoslav communist officer or aktivist. It seems that the guy on the photo below is wearing a verry similar collar, and BTW that is not a knightly order collar, it is a mantle bearer. What about the age? I would think about 1849 looking at the nationalistic hungarian colors on it The price is faaar above my current finance situation. If anybody is interested I can arrange a meeting. Attached Images Last edited by Valjhun; 10th July 2006 at 01:10 PM.

11th July 2006, 04:59 PM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	And here is the blade. Attached Images

10th July 2006, 03:48 PM	#3
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	Dont think so, in my oppinion the painting is older than the sword. The style rocaille elements on the hilt are more likely mid of 18th century. But the attribution to the Batthyány family is most likely, the coat of arms gives the clue, but it is still a pelican, not a swan... Definitely a sword for a museum collection!

10th July 2006, 06:35 PM	#4
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Very handsome sword, but not Polish and certainly not a karabela type. This is Hungarian Revival work of the 1850s-1890s. It represents an artistic approach on the part of ethnic Hungarians to react to Austrian dominance at the Austro-Hungarian Court. Ham

11th July 2006, 05:48 PM	#6
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	A most beautiful blade! I love to see such european motifs.

12th July 2006, 12:41 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A sumptuous sword! I would love to have it but would not be willing to sell my car for it. If I were a descendant of the family... that's a different ballgame: Mark once told us a fascinating story about his hunt for the sword of his great-great-grandfather (a couple more "greats"?) It is either a museum piece or a family heiloom. Anything else is not justified, IMHO.