Two african knifes for ID

[Pertinax]

Привет Томас.
Нож в ножах. Данная форма мечей и ножей характерна у племен Камерунского нагорья. Африканское оружие сложно датировать. Учитывая достаточно гармоничное сочетание рукояти с клинком и ножнами, отсутствие следов позднего вмешательства, уместно предположить, что предмет в целом может быть датирован не ранее второй половиной XX в. Возможно, в отверстиях ножен были украшения.
С уважением Юрий

Hello Thomas.
Knife in knives. This form of swords and knives is characteristic of the tribes of the Cameroon Highlands. African weapons are difficult to date. Considering the rather harmonious combination of the handle with the blade and sheath, and the absence of traces of late intervention, it is appropriate to assume that the object as a whole can be dated no earlier than the second half of the 20th century. Perhaps there were decorations in the holes of the scabbard.
Regards, Yuri

Кинжал из департамента Майо-Сава Крайнесеверного региона Камеруна из моей коллекции, примерно вторая половина ХХ века.

Dagger from the Mayo-Sava is a department of Extreme-Nord Province in Cameroon from my collection, second half of the 20th century.

[tomato77]

Thank you veyr much for the answers and thank you, Ian, for bumping the post up again.

May I kindly ask, which characteristics lead to your decisions? I totally agree with your general localization of the two knifes.

Your knife, Yuri, is quite obviously a Haussa dagger as I got one myself (see picture attached). I agree that the shape of the blade is very similar, but neither is the sheath nor the handle. I've never seen a Haussa dagger with such a handle. I've seen knifes of the Salampasu in the Democratic Republic of Congo which got similar handles even though most (but not all) Salampasu knifes got very different blade shapes.

Quite the same keeps me wondering about the other knife without a sheath, TVV. The knob at the hilt and the brass section do point at Senegal, but all the references I can find show significant differences. On Catawiki (though not a reliable source at all) there is a knife with some comparable features placed in Mauretania. I found other sources placing such knifes with the Assanya, the "neighbours" of the Tuareg.

I really hope we can sort this out. I know that these knifes are not prime examples with the gold and diamonds, but I really find them very interesting to localize.

Best

Thomas

[Tim Simmons]

The other knife is from the Luba people in the Congo. This image is from; Seltene Afrikanische Kurzwaffen, Manfred A Zirngibl. the German title. Other weapon in the publication may be rare but these are not really. I had a nice one with a twist forged in the blade to cause more damaging wounds.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by tomato77

Thank you veyr much for the answers and thank you, Ian, for bumping the post up again.

May I kindly ask, which characteristics lead to your decisions? I totally agree with your general localization of the two knifes.

Your knife, Yuri, is quite obviously a Haussa dagger as I got one myself (see picture attached). I agree that the shape of the blade is very similar, but neither is the sheath nor the handle. I've never seen a Haussa dagger with such a handle. I've seen knifes of the Salampasu in the Democratic Republic of Congo which got similar handles even though most (but not all) Salampasu knifes got very different blade shapes.

Quite the same keeps me wondering about the other knife without a sheath, TVV. The knob at the hilt and the brass section do point at Senegal, but all the references I can find show significant differences. On Catawiki (though not a reliable source at all) there is a knife with some comparable features placed in Mauretania. I found other sources placing such knifes with the Assanya, the "neighbours" of the Tuareg.

I really hope we can sort this out. I know that these knifes are not prime examples with the gold and diamonds, but I really find them very interesting to localize.

Best

Thomas

В датировке и идентификации ножа мне помогли фотографии путешественников, побывавших в данном регионе, которые нашел в сети.
1. «Кирди-музыкант», кинжал, Крайний Север Камеруна - Майо-Сава - Мора, 1931 - 1933
2. «Лавка торговца скобяными изделиями», новые кинжалы, Крайний Север Камеруна - Майо-Сава - Майо-Плата, ноябрь 1982 г.
С уважением Юрий

I was helped in dating and identifying the knife by photographs of travelers who had visited this region, which I found on the Internet.
1. “Kirdi the Musician”, dagger, Far North Cameroon - Mayo-Sawa - Mora, 1931 - 1933
2. “Hardmonger’s Shop”, new daggers, Far North Cameroon - Mayo Sawa - Mayo Plata, November 1982.
Regards, Yuri