Hunting sword - Hirschfanger for comments

Interested Party · 31st December 2023, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The reason I added the image of the tortoise shell material of a Chinese sword in the unnoticed post I placed previously was to illustrate the effect of yellow color highlighted with brown patches. Somehow it just seemed in line with the yellowish toned material here which is staghorn or buckhorn most likely (not sure of the proper zoological term) which has indeed been painted or highlighted ...

In Europe, 'orientalism' was in the height of fashion and popularity, and the curious talismanic charms and mysticism became well represented in the intaglios of themes on blades. The trellis type cross hatching and entwined vegetal decoration IMO has to do with that of talismanic devices and sigils with origins in Eastern Europe which came into France and Germany.

While it would seem strange that protective amulets etc. would be needed in the hunt, there was a good deal of danger from wounded and enraged animals as well as many other potential accidents. The invoking for success in the hunt was also a factor.

Definitely not unnoticed Jim. You said it all, so I just listened and learned. I have been curious if this pattern isn't burned into the antler, but maybe it is closer to a dying process akin to modern jigged bone that changes the color of bone to match stag.

As far as the knotwork goes it can be traced back at least to iron or bronze age Celtic culture and was in early Germanic cultures as well (I can cite cite illuminations in old and middle English texts for this). I think the area between the two cultures is now considered fuzzier than historians believed 50 years ago.

In European doctrine are you not supposed to pray before beginning all endeavors (I forget the chapter and verse). So, it is logical that protection as well as guidance is always needed.

Happy new year!

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2023, 01:54 PM

Thank you guys, I guess I was looking for a response to the Chinese exemplar and suggestion, which I should have worded more carefully. To me the similarity to the toned tortoise shell effect seemed compellingly similar.
I would note here that the creation of faux decoration that often reached for 'oriental' styling was profoundly practiced in the 18th century .

Case in point was the 'galuchat' style of horse hide with pressed seeds and dyed to replicate ray skin in grips . Also there was a curious affinity for dying or tinting ivory green, perhaps intended to associate with various types of jade?

Very well noted on the Celtic style braiding and knotwork which certainly must be associated with these kinds of decorative motif. I agree that often the more information that becomes available, the expansion of possibilities increase, making specific definition more difficult in many cases.
As Eastern Europe was of course heavily influenced by Germanic populations such as notably in Transylvania and other principalities, these kinds of material culture characteristics diffused accordingly.

Interesting note on the European doctrines pertaining to the religious aspects of talismanic themes. I have always been fascinated by the 'magical' and occult devices, themes and amuletic properties of blade decoration, and how closely religious invocations often 'share the same space'.

My wishes as well for a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! and many new discoveries!

31st December 2023, 01:54 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,297	Thank you guys, I guess I was looking for a response to the Chinese exemplar and suggestion, which I should have worded more carefully. To me the similarity to the toned tortoise shell effect seemed compellingly similar. I would note here that the creation of faux decoration that often reached for 'oriental' styling was profoundly practiced in the 18th century . Case in point was the 'galuchat' style of horse hide with pressed seeds and dyed to replicate ray skin in grips . Also there was a curious affinity for dying or tinting ivory green, perhaps intended to associate with various types of jade? Very well noted on the Celtic style braiding and knotwork which certainly must be associated with these kinds of decorative motif. I agree that often the more information that becomes available, the expansion of possibilities increase, making specific definition more difficult in many cases. As Eastern Europe was of course heavily influenced by Germanic populations such as notably in Transylvania and other principalities, these kinds of material culture characteristics diffused accordingly. Interesting note on the European doctrines pertaining to the religious aspects of talismanic themes. I have always been fascinated by the 'magical' and occult devices, themes and amuletic properties of blade decoration, and how closely religious invocations often 'share the same space'. My wishes as well for a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! and many new discoveries!