Maximum size of kris?

[kai]

there are the broad moro style (sundang) ones that were used for draw cuts like a katana, and could also be used for thrusts; the US Marines recorded instances where a moro actually cut a marine in two with one back in the early 20thC insurrection

As already noted, that was a barong AFAIK but there is no doubt that a Moro kris can be similarly devastating. In the same vein, there was another recent thread where a veteran of the Filipino army was cited as having stated that he never saw any victim of a kris attack survive due to the severe wounds (under the limited medical care options in remote jungles)!

it's why the army dropped their 'economic' .38 cal. pistols in favor of the .45.

Actually, that's a myth. It's true that the .38 usually didn't have enough stopping power to deal with juramentado attacks. But the limited stopping power (in different combat situations) was already well known before the Spanish-American war and I recall that the switch to the .45 had been already decided, too. However, it often seems to take ages to get equipment upgrades distributed to regular combat soldiers rather than to just a few elite units.

Regards,
Kai

[MABAGANI]

Originally Posted by kai

Actually, that's a myth. It's true that the .38 usually didn't have enough stopping power to deal with juramentado attacks. But the limited stopping power (in different combat situations) was already well known before the Spanish-American war and I recall that the switch to the .45 had been already decided, too. However, it often seems to take ages to get equipment upgrades distributed to regular combat soldiers rather than to just a few elite units.

Can you cite some references for your opinion that its a myth?
There is a good article in a old magazine "The Gun Report vol.37,#1", that records the history of the switch during and after the Philippine American War 1902 when the US continued the fight in the Moro territories. Soldiers wanted the .45 revolvers over the issued .38 because they saw Moros fighting after multiple shots and cutting down their opponent. Development of the .45 automatic took about a decade with the 1911 issue while still fighting the Moro. The military even admit it was the battles with the Moro that cause the switch on one of their promotional posters.

[kai]

Hello Mabagani,

Can you cite some references for your opinion that its a myth?

Give me a little time - I'll try to look for my sources.

Regards,
Kai

[MABAGANI]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Mabagani,


Give me a little time - I'll try to look for my sources.

Regards,
Kai

Okay, here is a quote from the mag about the contracted use of the.38 by the US navy and army "...much to the annoyance of the American soldiers. This continued as late as 1909, when Brigadier General John J. Pershing was serving his second Philippine tour. On December 24, 1909, he wrote to a friend of an incident wherein an Army captain was attacked by a blade-wielding Moro. The officer fired all six rounds from his .38 caliber revolver into the Moro, who pressed the attack and cut the captain to pieces. The assailant was finally dispatched by a guard with a .45 caliber bullet."

[MABAGANI]

Originally Posted by kai

Actually, that's a myth.. .38...switch to the .45

Here's the Department of the Army poster no. 21-48 published in 1953 The US Army in Action. The text reads: "The four day battle of Bagsak Mountain on Jolo Island in the Philippines took place from the 11 to 15 June 1913. Americans of the 8th Infantry and the Philippine Scouts, commanded by Captain John J. Pershing, brought to an end years of bitter struggle against the Moro pirates. These Bolo men, outlaws of great physical endurance and savage fighting ability, were well organized under their Datus or chiefs. They had never been conquered during several centuries of Spanish rule in the Philippines. The US Army .45 caliber pistol was developed to meet the need for a weapon with enough striking power to stop fanatical charges of lawless Moro tribesmen in hand-to-hand fighting."

The myth here was the quote "brought to an end years of bitter struggle against the Moro", battles continued censored until the military left in 1936.