Request for comments and insights on a Keris Madura

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2023, 09:10 AM

Yes Jean, "daunan" is a commonly used name for the Madura ladrangan, but there are variations in Madurese ladrangans, just as there are variations in Solonese & Ngayoga ladrangans , as well as the other regional variations.

As you have said "daunan" indicates leaf, but this is generic, not specific. In a Jawa wrongko the wide leaf-like part of a ladrang wrongko is called the "ron", or "godhong", which again means "leaf".

All Jawa ladrangs have this "ron", all Madura ladrang style wrongkos also have the leaf-like part, & in Madura it is called "daun", so a Madura ladrang is "daunan", ie, a wrongko with a "leaf".

Its generic, just as "Ladrangan" is generic.

The Kagok style is found in all areas of Jawa & Madura that do not wish to follow the lead of Ngoyoga & Solo, kagok wrongkos are found in Madiun, Magelang, the North Pesisir, and it is found in Madura & other places. It is not a form that originated in Solo, so it is not a sub-type of the Solonese ladrangan, it is a sub-type of the Javanese ladrangan. Some people believe it originated on the North Coast.

We could most certainly call Paul's wrongko "daunan", & that would be the same as calling it "ladrangan", Kagok, Kagok Capu, & Capu are sub-varieties of the Ladrangan form if we use Javanese, & the Daunan form if we use Madurese.

EDIT

Something just occurred to me.

The word "daun" is a Malay word, it does not occur in Javanese, nor in Old Javanese, nor Balinese for that matter.

I am not literate in Madurese, & I've seen the word "daunan" used frequently to describe the Madura ladrang, but I now doubt that this is the correct word in the indigenous language of Madura to describe the Madura Ladrang, I think that "daunan" has perhaps been coined by people who predominantly use Bahasa Indonesia in public communication, so probably educated Indonesians living adjacent to Madura, or perhaps amongst Indonesian collectors, but not amongst the Madurese people living in rural areas or who are societal elites.

Maybe we still have a way to go before we really know the correct term to use when we refer to a Madurese ladrangan wrongko.

Paul de Souza · 5th November 2023, 11:44 AM

Thanks for all your feedback. I am learning a lot.
Thanks again.

David · 7th November 2023, 05:40 PM

Here is an alternative take on formal Madurese dress from my collection. I believe this hilt depicts the same subject/figure.

A. G. Maisey · 8th November 2023, 01:29 AM

In Jawa we call that style of wrongko "kacir", which means something that is thin/spindly, sticking up. It is a legitimate Madura & East Jawa form, but sometimes people will reshape a broken ladrangan form into this kacir form, expecially if the wood is a prized type of material.

5th November 2023, 09:10 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes Jean, "daunan" is a commonly used name for the Madura ladrangan, but there are variations in Madurese ladrangans, just as there are variations in Solonese & Ngayoga ladrangans , as well as the other regional variations. As you have said "daunan" indicates leaf, but this is generic, not specific. In a Jawa wrongko the wide leaf-like part of a ladrang wrongko is called the "ron", or "godhong", which again means "leaf". All Jawa ladrangs have this "ron", all Madura ladrang style wrongkos also have the leaf-like part, & in Madura it is called "daun", so a Madura ladrang is "daunan", ie, a wrongko with a "leaf". Its generic, just as "Ladrangan" is generic. The Kagok style is found in all areas of Jawa & Madura that do not wish to follow the lead of Ngoyoga & Solo, kagok wrongkos are found in Madiun, Magelang, the North Pesisir, and it is found in Madura & other places. It is not a form that originated in Solo, so it is not a sub-type of the Solonese ladrangan, it is a sub-type of the Javanese ladrangan. Some people believe it originated on the North Coast. We could most certainly call Paul's wrongko "daunan", & that would be the same as calling it "ladrangan", Kagok, Kagok Capu, & Capu are sub-varieties of the Ladrangan form if we use Javanese, & the Daunan form if we use Madurese. EDIT Something just occurred to me. The word "daun" is a Malay word, it does not occur in Javanese, nor in Old Javanese, nor Balinese for that matter. I am not literate in Madurese, & I've seen the word "daunan" used frequently to describe the Madura ladrang, but I now doubt that this is the correct word in the indigenous language of Madura to describe the Madura Ladrang, I think that "daunan" has perhaps been coined by people who predominantly use Bahasa Indonesia in public communication, so probably educated Indonesians living adjacent to Madura, or perhaps amongst Indonesian collectors, but not amongst the Madurese people living in rural areas or who are societal elites. Maybe we still have a way to go before we really know the correct term to use when we refer to a Madurese ladrangan wrongko. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 5th November 2023 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Afterthought

7th November 2023, 05:40 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Here is an alternative take on formal Madurese dress from my collection. I believe this hilt depicts the same subject/figure. Attached Images

5th November 2023, 11:44 AM	#2
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	Thanks for all your feedback. I am learning a lot. Thanks again.

8th November 2023, 01:29 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	In Jawa we call that style of wrongko "kacir", which means something that is thin/spindly, sticking up. It is a legitimate Madura & East Jawa form, but sometimes people will reshape a broken ladrangan form into this kacir form, expecially if the wood is a prized type of material.