Indonesian sword?

A. G. Maisey · 25th September 2023, 08:57 AM

Jeff, this sort of stuff is a bit outside my area of interest, but I have seen similar edged weapons to this that were attributed to Sumatera, Aceh.

Sajen · 25th September 2023, 10:19 PM

I've never seen something similar, sorry!

A. G. Maisey · 26th September 2023, 12:38 AM

I said "similar" Detlef, I did not say "the same".

I reckon that you & a lot of other people too might have seen swords & daggers & knives that bear design characteristics and geometry that would fit into the parameters that this sword of Jeff's carries. This is clearly not a major item, it looks like rural workmanship, and as we move away from major centers of influence the easy to ID characteristics soften & blend with the ideas of people who only have perhaps vague memories or stumbling descriptions to work on.

When looking at older items from SE Asia we need to remember things like the travellers' tales of attempting to cross Sumatera by motorbike during the not so distant past, like into the 1950's. A lot of what we take for granted now was very different not long ago. Even places like Bali were very, very different in the 1960's & 1970's. I had personal experience of both rural Jawa & South Bali long before the tourist flood. I'm reading a book at the moment that was written by a long-time Australian resident of Bali, a famous landscape architect, where he regards 1985 as the year when old Bali changed, I personally regard 1982 as the last good year for Bali, and in 1982 it was a lot different to what it was in 1966-7.

In the markets in Bali now we can see the current interpretations of designs from the past, put a 2023 work-knife side by side with a 1970 work knife and a cursory glance will cause one to form the opinion that these two knives are from different places, but spend the time to look closely at design geometry & we will find the same salient features.

Jerseyman · 26th September 2023, 10:05 PM

I'm no expert, but this feels Nias to me. I had a quick flick through Albert's lastest book (Traditionele Wapens van Nias - Zonneveld) and Type 10 on page 160 has some similarities - enough to perhaps merit consideration.

A. G. Maisey · 27th September 2023, 03:19 AM

I think this Nias example does qualify as "similar" , slight differences, not the same, but to my eye certainly similar.

Nias is located in the Province of North Sumatera.

JeffS · 27th September 2023, 02:32 PM

I really appreciate the discussion. The Nias vibe originally caught my eye and curiosity. However there were hair plugs (since broken off) which is reminiscent of Timor area or Borneo. If I had to choose between the two, Timor. I also understand hair was often added for tourist appeal. The blade quality is decent but overall primitive as noted. The interlocking hilt and scabbard throat is pleasing and well executed.

Albert · 27th September 2023, 08:06 PM

I don't recognize any similarities with Nias swords.
Although the blade looks similar to the sword in the picture in my book, it is a very common shape found in many areas.
The hilt and sheath provide no clues to Nias.

26th September 2023, 10:05 PM	#4
Jerseyman Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 97	I'm no expert, but this feels Nias to me. I had a quick flick through Albert's lastest book (Traditionele Wapens van Nias - Zonneveld) and Type 10 on page 160 has some similarities - enough to perhaps merit consideration. Attached Images

25th September 2023, 08:57 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Jeff, this sort of stuff is a bit outside my area of interest, but I have seen similar edged weapons to this that were attributed to Sumatera, Aceh.

25th September 2023, 10:19 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,270	I've never seen something similar, sorry!

26th September 2023, 12:38 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I said "similar" Detlef, I did not say "the same". I reckon that you & a lot of other people too might have seen swords & daggers & knives that bear design characteristics and geometry that would fit into the parameters that this sword of Jeff's carries. This is clearly not a major item, it looks like rural workmanship, and as we move away from major centers of influence the easy to ID characteristics soften & blend with the ideas of people who only have perhaps vague memories or stumbling descriptions to work on. When looking at older items from SE Asia we need to remember things like the travellers' tales of attempting to cross Sumatera by motorbike during the not so distant past, like into the 1950's. A lot of what we take for granted now was very different not long ago. Even places like Bali were very, very different in the 1960's & 1970's. I had personal experience of both rural Jawa & South Bali long before the tourist flood. I'm reading a book at the moment that was written by a long-time Australian resident of Bali, a famous landscape architect, where he regards 1985 as the year when old Bali changed, I personally regard 1982 as the last good year for Bali, and in 1982 it was a lot different to what it was in 1966-7. In the markets in Bali now we can see the current interpretations of designs from the past, put a 2023 work-knife side by side with a 1970 work knife and a cursory glance will cause one to form the opinion that these two knives are from different places, but spend the time to look closely at design geometry & we will find the same salient features.

27th September 2023, 03:19 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I think this Nias example does qualify as "similar" , slight differences, not the same, but to my eye certainly similar. Nias is located in the Province of North Sumatera.

27th September 2023, 02:32 PM	#6
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 433	I really appreciate the discussion. The Nias vibe originally caught my eye and curiosity. However there were hair plugs (since broken off) which is reminiscent of Timor area or Borneo. If I had to choose between the two, Timor. I also understand hair was often added for tourist appeal. The blade quality is decent but overall primitive as noted. The interlocking hilt and scabbard throat is pleasing and well executed.

27th September 2023, 08:06 PM	#7
Albert Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 202	I don't recognize any similarities with Nias swords. Although the blade looks similar to the sword in the picture in my book, it is a very common shape found in many areas. The hilt and sheath provide no clues to Nias.