Later-era saber kris for comment

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by David

I don't think there is any question of Moro blades being engraved on the blades dating back to the early 1900s, but i am afraid that the illustration you have presented does not really show well enough if it is done in the same style. But we have to look at more than just similar motifs, since okir patterns are traditional and are used over long periods of time. We need to look at execution and think about what tools might have made the engraving. To my eye the engravings on this keris look machine made rather than hand incised. And there is not separate gangya, which also hints put at a particular timeline, even though there were some old exceptions to that rule. I still feel comfortable dating this to the 1950s-60s.

I think drac2k has an engraved panabas sample corresponding (or rather close to) the Krieger plate here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20194

Looking at it closely...the engraving reminds me of my kris. Hmmm.

To my current knowledge, the Maranao people only started using machines for any blade-related operations post-1980s already.

[RobT]

xasterix,

In your initial post in this thread you wrote, "I didn't attach an asang-asang anymore because it was mono-construction anyway, and the carved art extends into the 'vacant' area for the clamp." I believe that the asang-asang (asang-asangs when there are two) is intended as additional support/shock absorption to prevent the tang from torquing in the hilt when a blow is struck. As such, whether the blade is mono construction or not is irrelevant. Just my two cents but, were the sword mine, I would replace the asang-asang even though it covers up part of the engraving.

Sincerely,
RobT

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by RobT

xasterix,

In your initial post in this thread you wrote, "I didn't attach an asang-asang anymore because it was mono-construction anyway, and the carved art extends into the 'vacant' area for the clamp." I believe that the asang-asang (asang-asangs when there are two) is intended as additional support/shock absorption to prevent the tang from torquing in the hilt when a blow is struck. As such, whether the blade is mono construction or not is irrelevant. Just my two cents but, were the sword mine, I would replace the asang-asang even though it covers up part of the engraving.

Sincerely,
RobT

Good point Rob, that's indeed among the original purposes of the asang-asang. I'm planning to install an unattached one (minus the clamp extension, since the hilt cavity and ferrule are epoxied already) in the future to complete the "look" at least.

[Rick]

I don't think I've seen any examples of these decorated Moro swords that wouldn't be fit to use in a combat situation.
Not to say that these were or were not made with an eye for sales to world travelers.
They are certainly well made and quite functional for something that may be intended for sale outside the culture.

[drac2k]

As an after mention, the heading under the plate read "No.1 Straight-edged steel kampilan captured by the expedition under Capt. J.J. Pershing,1903, Moro, Lake Lanao, Mindanao."
Once again, I am note knowledgeable enough to comment on the age of this featured sword, but it does show that this type of engraving was done at least back to 1903 and if this was indeed a captured item, it wasn't done merely as a tourist item embellishment.

[xasterix]

Dear Drac and Rick:

Thanks for the additional comments! Will definitely consider these data.

[RobT]

Hi All,

I went back and forth for an entire day before finally deciding to make this post. I really don't like to get up on a soapbox and I sincerely hope no one is offended but the mention in this thread of a hilt epoxied in place made my skin crawl. Normally, I would preface my remarks with "in my opinion" but in this case I will say without the slightest equivocation that components of antique or collectible weapons should never be affixed by any method or with any substance that would require damage to any of the pieces to get them loose again. Epoxy is at the top of the list of things to be avoided. For securing hilts, cutler's resin is sufficient, easy to make, and easy to undo with heat. There are a number of online how-to videos with various formulae. Even for repairing a crack in wood, epoxy is undesirable because it is thick and will leave a glue line. Modern cross link polymer and cyanoacrylate glues are appropriate for these types of repairs if dry clamping shows that the crack can be drawn together and glued invisibly. Again, I hope that I didn't offend anybody but I couldn't let this go. I am sure that, if there are any forum members that are involved with antique furniture restoration, they will agree with me wholeheartedly.

Sincerely,
RobT