Java dress questions and translation

kai · 2nd July 2023, 10:17 AM

Hello Gavin,

Quote:

Can anyone offer insights or translation to the inked characters to the side of the Warangka?

I'd guess at Japanese script from WWII...

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 2nd July 2023, 10:47 AM

Hello Gav,

Like Alan I would place the scabbard and hilt to East Java. And pictures from the complete keris and the blade would be very helpful.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 2nd July 2023, 05:55 PM

I think pre-WWII is a safe bet. But it could, of course, be older.
I would also place this as East Jawa. Though not a deciding factor, the mendak style is also East Jawa.
I realize your questions right now are about the sheath, but will you show the blade as well?

Gavin Nugent · 3rd July 2023, 12:33 PM

Thanks gents.

My query was only on the dress because it has a non Java blade within and that I found the hulu particularly interesting to me.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd July 2023, 02:47 PM

If non-Jowo Gavin, what is it?

A keris complete can sometimes tell a story, just looking at hats & coats tell us little about who wore them.

Gavin Nugent · 4th July 2023, 07:05 AM

It is a classic hexagonal cross sectioned Bugis blade Alan.

Looks like an old marriage, I cannot see evidence of modern tampering with the timbers, a perfectly snug fit. The inside of the wrongko retains old dry patina with a warm glossy patina over the lip where the blade has rested and moved in and out... old timber working reliefs within seem undisturbed.

A. G. Maisey · 4th July 2023, 09:28 AM

OK Gavin thanks.

This sort of thing is very often a keris that was used by a mercenary. Javanese rulers at all levels, as well as private businesses all used mercenaries from societies that understood combat, usually Madura, Bugis, Bali. Scabbards were frequently discarded before & during combat & replaced with whatever was handy later. The idea that everything --- blade, dress & etc --- must match is a nice one, but nobody ever told the people who actually used keris.

For a dress keris all components of the dress should be correctly mated, but even then, the keris in that beautifully mated dress will sometimes be from somewhere other than where the dress is from.

2nd July 2023, 10:47 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,415	Hello Gav, Like Alan I would place the scabbard and hilt to East Java. And pictures from the complete keris and the blade would be very helpful. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

2nd July 2023, 05:55 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I think pre-WWII is a safe bet. But it could, of course, be older. I would also place this as East Jawa. Though not a deciding factor, the mendak style is also East Jawa. I realize your questions right now are about the sheath, but will you show the blade as well?

3rd July 2023, 12:33 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks gents. My query was only on the dress because it has a non Java blade within and that I found the hulu particularly interesting to me.

3rd July 2023, 02:47 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	If non-Jowo Gavin, what is it? A keris complete can sometimes tell a story, just looking at hats & coats tell us little about who wore them.

4th July 2023, 07:05 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	It is a classic hexagonal cross sectioned Bugis blade Alan. Looks like an old marriage, I cannot see evidence of modern tampering with the timbers, a perfectly snug fit. The inside of the wrongko retains old dry patina with a warm glossy patina over the lip where the blade has rested and moved in and out... old timber working reliefs within seem undisturbed.

4th July 2023, 09:28 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	OK Gavin thanks. This sort of thing is very often a keris that was used by a mercenary. Javanese rulers at all levels, as well as private businesses all used mercenaries from societies that understood combat, usually Madura, Bugis, Bali. Scabbards were frequently discarded before & during combat & replaced with whatever was handy later. The idea that everything --- blade, dress & etc --- must match is a nice one, but nobody ever told the people who actually used keris. For a dress keris all components of the dress should be correctly mated, but even then, the keris in that beautifully mated dress will sometimes be from somewhere other than where the dress is from.