The Knife Amnesty in the UK....the repercussions for edged weapons collectors

Ian · 27th June 2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

It really is pretty absurd. Unfortunately, its an actual law as well. It would probably have been better to outlaw the carrying of knives under most circumstance, rather than to outlaw knives.

A concealed weapon law would have made more sense, but personally I would have disagreed with that approach too. Why should people not be allowed to carry a good all purpose knife in their pocket, like any other tool? Yes, a tool might be a weapon, but a tool is primarily a tool. Are we going to outlaw a screwdriver or chisel because they could be used to stab somebody? Maybe in a prison setting that would be a good idea. Otherwise it sounds pretty stupid.

This is straying into politics, and the forum discourages such comments. So I'll shut up. Enough venting.

Ian.

Henk · 27th June 2006, 11:23 PM

I'm really concerned about these stupid laws, made by nitwits. In Holland those idiot delevery weeks where also used to collect knives from youngsters. I know because i have some policemen among my friends that even brave citicens brought in the most beautiful swords, knives and keris for destruction. And now i'm talking about museum pieces!!!!

nechesh · 28th June 2006, 12:32 AM

Quote from Katana"s firt post:
"If you carry a knife out of self-defence, you run the risk of having it turned on you. Carrying a knife is illegal and will not be tolerated. It could land you four years in prison"

Am i missing something? Does this law go further than this? It seems to be about CARRYING edged weapons, not owning them. Does this law also ban owning such weapons in ones home? If so i have a problem with it. If it is just about carrying such weapons i don't see a problem....except, of course, that criminals will continue to carry regardless. But i don't necessarily see it as a threat to the collector world.

VANDOO · 28th June 2006, 01:06 AM

THE ATHORITIES WHO ONLY COLLECT MONEY AND HAVE BODYGARDS WITH LOTS OF GUNS ARE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT THE IGONORANT LOWER CLASSES. WHAT A LOAD OF S.

THE REASON THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION FOR BEARING ARMS IS TO KEEP THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE FROM GETTING ABSOLUTE POWER OVER THE PEOPLE. IF THEY DO GET SUCH CONTROL HISTORY IN MANY COUNTRYS HAS SHOWN OVER AND OVER THAT THEY WILL ALWAYS ABUSE THAT POWER. A DEMOCRATIC GOVERMNENT SHOULD TRUST AND BE HONEST WITH THEIR CITIZENS AND THEN THE CITIZENS WILL TRUST THE GOVERNMENT OTHERWISE NO GOVERNMENT WILL WORK WELL AND A REPUBLIC WILL FAIL. THE OTHER WAY TO RULE THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRIES CITIZENS IS BY PROPAGANDA, POOR EDUCATION, TERROR AND FEAR. UNFORTUNATELY THIS LATTER TYPE IS A MORE COMMON KIND OF GOVERNMENT THRU OUT MANS HISTORY.

THE DESTRUCTION OF A RARE ONE OF A KIND MUSEUM GRADE WEAPON IS MORE OF A CRIME THAN CARRYING A SIMPLE POCKET KNIFE. THE MOST IMPORTANT SURVIVAL TOOL THAT GOES BACK TO MANS EARLY PRE- HISTORY HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE KNIFE, IT IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH FIRE IN IMPORTANCE. YET THE BAN WILL INCLUDE NAIL CLIPPERS, BLUNT NOSED SISSORS AND BUTTER KNIVES CAN YOU IMAGINE GOING TO PRISON FOR YEARS FOR CARRING A SWISS ARMY KNIFE? THEY WILL HAVE TO MAKE EXAMPLES OF THAT TYPE TO TERRIFY THE LAW ABIDING INTO TOTAL SUBMISSION. THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT WILL THRIVE AND THE RICH WILL GET RICHER AND THE GOOD CITIZENS AND SOCIETY WILL SUFFER. TO LIVE IN FEAR OF YOUR GOVERNMENT AND FEAR OF THE CRIMINAL WHO YOU NO LONGER HAVE A CHANCE OF PROTECTING YOURSELF FROM IS NOT QUALITY LIFE OR FREEDOM. POOR GOVERNMENT, LAWS AND PRESS WILL DESTROY A COUNTRY AND PEOPLE JUST AS SURLEY AS AN INVADING ARMY AND MAKE IT EASIER AND FASTER FOR ENEMYS TO CONQUER.

A. G. Maisey · 28th June 2006, 02:09 AM

In recent years here in Australia there has been an increasing political push of the "law and order" line. This has resulted in a number of restrictions, and attempts by politicians to introduce harsher penalties.

Since there has in fact been an overall decrease in crimes of violence within the Australian community, it is obvious that this pushing of the law and order barrow is politically motivated and based upon the perception of advisors that there are more votes in a hard law and order line than in a more relaxed one.

Some years ago I was involved very closely in the actions taken by our state government to introduce laws that were designed to address the carrying of knives and other weapons by a small number of persons in particular locations.

The legislation that was eventually enacted was strong, workable legislation that has provided the police with a very practical tool to deter the carriage and use of knives and other weapons in public places.

I do not believe it is demonstrable that this legislation has resulted in a decrease in the use of knives or other implements as weapons, but it is legislation that because of its common sense nature has a high degree of respect within the community.

Effectively this legislation acknowledges that it is not the knife, nor the screwdriver, nor the icepick, nor the bunch of keys that is a danger, but the carriage of these implements in a public place without good and proveable reason.

Under this legislation police are empowered to detain and search in situ persons who are reasonably suspected of being in possession of knives or other implements without good reason.

However, since all this type of legislation is politically motivated, and since politicians need to continually prove that they are ever on guard to protect the public good, we are now in the position of waiting for the introduction of new legislation that could place a ban on the ownership of swords.

That is ownership. Not carriage. Uncle Ben's bayonet from WWII that is used as a dibble stick could well become a prohibited weapon.

This new legislation raised its ugly head perhaps two years ago as something that the then Minister of Police wished to see come out of an impartial, objective, routine review of the Prohibition of Weapons Act.

I have been advised that the report of the review will be available within the very near future. This report will form the basis for amendments to legislation.

We do not yet know what these amendments might be, but based upon what has already been introduced into some other states, they could involve licencing, very expensive safe keeping requirements, the keeping of auditable records, and a multitude of other obnoxious and totally ineffective requirements. Ineffective in the sense of providing an increased level of security for the community.

Then of course there is the problem of defining exactly what a sword might be.Richard Burton could not do it.

Here in the state of New South Wales, in Australia, those of us who have a vested interest in swords and other edged weapons are currently waiting with bated breath to see what new delights our law makers might have in store for us.

Apart from those with a vested interest in swords, a number of gardeners, tradesmen, and housewives who are aware of the implications for them of an unwisely drafted piece of legislation, are also very interested to see exactly how much wisdom our elected representatives might have in this matter.

Rick · 28th June 2006, 02:55 AM

There is something to be said in favor of living in "The States" .

I keep my Moro swords in a glass topped 3 drawer collector's table ; one night we had a cop in the house about some strange phone calls we were getting , he sat down on our couch to fill out his report ;when he saw the krisses he simply chuckled and quipped " what's this ; in case of emergency break glass ?"

I also think about the movie Network ; a savage commentary on American television .
I think this quote from the script fits ; maybe some of you will remember it :

" I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad.
Howard Beale: [shouting] You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, Goddamnit! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell,
[shouting]
Howard Beale: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it:
Howard Beale: [screaming at the top of his lungs] "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

Mark · 28th June 2006, 05:35 AM

Oh, yes. We can be prisoners of our own complacency. When the news is showbusiness, and a comedy show is the most reliable news source, the signs are there. We have freedoms, in theory, but by not understanding them and, more importantly, not exercising them, they can become meaningless. Not lost, but just as bad. They become words on a piece of paper that no one reads. You don't have to be violent about exercising your rights, just firm, just certain, and hopefully informed. You have to care about it, see it as more than a morning "wasted" in line at the local voting station.

So there is my political rant. Just my opinion, of course. Now, where did I put that remote .... ?

A. G. Maisey · 28th June 2006, 05:54 AM

Yes Mark, we should defend our rights.

In the USA you do indeed have rights to defend.

In Australia we have no constitutional rights as you do, and the old Bill of Rights has long been superceded by legislation.

Many of the things that people in USA regard as God given rights are in Australia regarded as privileges.

Successive governments of both major political persuasions at both federal and state levels have methodically chipped away at freedoms that we thought we had.

The current government of this country , which is a hardline conservative government, has recently introduced industrial relations legislation that will eventually see the employer/employee relationship put back to the late 19th century. One does not have to be particularly brilliant to understand the principle reason behind the anti-weapons legislation and the relentless social engineering designed to turn the Australia population into sheep.

I am now 65 years of age, and in quite comfortable circumstances. Were I younger, or in any sort of volatile employment situation, I would probably give very serious consideration to migrating to another country.

The Australia of 2006 is not the country that my forebears fought for in two world wars, nor is it the country that I grew up in.It is nothing even remotely similar to the country presented in movies.

not2sharp · 28th June 2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

There is something to be said in favor of living in "The States" .

This might be a good time to ship parts of your collections over seas. At least then you have the option of either moving there, selling it, or moving it back when the laws permit. Just sitting there as the water rises may leave you trapped in a mess where the only option left to you is to surrender it to the authorities for distruction.

n2s

katana · 28th June 2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

This might be a good time to ship parts of your collections over seas. At least then you have the option of either moving there, selling it, or moving it back when the laws permit. Just sitting there as the water rises may leave you trapped in a mess where the only option left to you is to surrender it to the authorities for distruction.

n2s

I really hope it doesn't get as bad as that........I'll have to start collecting
guns or .... stamps

At least they haven't mentioned blow pipes...... I've got two ....

27th June 2006, 11:23 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I'm really concerned about these stupid laws, made by nitwits. In Holland those idiot delevery weeks where also used to collect knives from youngsters. I know because i have some policemen among my friends that even brave citicens brought in the most beautiful swords, knives and keris for destruction. And now i'm talking about museum pieces!!!!

28th June 2006, 12:32 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Quote from Katana"s firt post: "If you carry a knife out of self-defence, you run the risk of having it turned on you. Carrying a knife is illegal and will not be tolerated. It could land you four years in prison" Am i missing something? Does this law go further than this? It seems to be about CARRYING edged weapons, not owning them. Does this law also ban owning such weapons in ones home? If so i have a problem with it. If it is just about carrying such weapons i don't see a problem....except, of course, that criminals will continue to carry regardless. But i don't necessarily see it as a threat to the collector world.

28th June 2006, 01:06 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE ATHORITIES WHO ONLY COLLECT MONEY AND HAVE BODYGARDS WITH LOTS OF GUNS ARE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT THE IGONORANT LOWER CLASSES. WHAT A LOAD OF S. THE REASON THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION FOR BEARING ARMS IS TO KEEP THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE FROM GETTING ABSOLUTE POWER OVER THE PEOPLE. IF THEY DO GET SUCH CONTROL HISTORY IN MANY COUNTRYS HAS SHOWN OVER AND OVER THAT THEY WILL ALWAYS ABUSE THAT POWER. A DEMOCRATIC GOVERMNENT SHOULD TRUST AND BE HONEST WITH THEIR CITIZENS AND THEN THE CITIZENS WILL TRUST THE GOVERNMENT OTHERWISE NO GOVERNMENT WILL WORK WELL AND A REPUBLIC WILL FAIL. THE OTHER WAY TO RULE THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRIES CITIZENS IS BY PROPAGANDA, POOR EDUCATION, TERROR AND FEAR. UNFORTUNATELY THIS LATTER TYPE IS A MORE COMMON KIND OF GOVERNMENT THRU OUT MANS HISTORY. THE DESTRUCTION OF A RARE ONE OF A KIND MUSEUM GRADE WEAPON IS MORE OF A CRIME THAN CARRYING A SIMPLE POCKET KNIFE. THE MOST IMPORTANT SURVIVAL TOOL THAT GOES BACK TO MANS EARLY PRE- HISTORY HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE KNIFE, IT IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH FIRE IN IMPORTANCE. YET THE BAN WILL INCLUDE NAIL CLIPPERS, BLUNT NOSED SISSORS AND BUTTER KNIVES CAN YOU IMAGINE GOING TO PRISON FOR YEARS FOR CARRING A SWISS ARMY KNIFE? THEY WILL HAVE TO MAKE EXAMPLES OF THAT TYPE TO TERRIFY THE LAW ABIDING INTO TOTAL SUBMISSION. THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT WILL THRIVE AND THE RICH WILL GET RICHER AND THE GOOD CITIZENS AND SOCIETY WILL SUFFER. TO LIVE IN FEAR OF YOUR GOVERNMENT AND FEAR OF THE CRIMINAL WHO YOU NO LONGER HAVE A CHANCE OF PROTECTING YOURSELF FROM IS NOT QUALITY LIFE OR FREEDOM. POOR GOVERNMENT, LAWS AND PRESS WILL DESTROY A COUNTRY AND PEOPLE JUST AS SURLEY AS AN INVADING ARMY AND MAKE IT EASIER AND FASTER FOR ENEMYS TO CONQUER.

28th June 2006, 02:09 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	In recent years here in Australia there has been an increasing political push of the "law and order" line. This has resulted in a number of restrictions, and attempts by politicians to introduce harsher penalties. Since there has in fact been an overall decrease in crimes of violence within the Australian community, it is obvious that this pushing of the law and order barrow is politically motivated and based upon the perception of advisors that there are more votes in a hard law and order line than in a more relaxed one. Some years ago I was involved very closely in the actions taken by our state government to introduce laws that were designed to address the carrying of knives and other weapons by a small number of persons in particular locations. The legislation that was eventually enacted was strong, workable legislation that has provided the police with a very practical tool to deter the carriage and use of knives and other weapons in public places. I do not believe it is demonstrable that this legislation has resulted in a decrease in the use of knives or other implements as weapons, but it is legislation that because of its common sense nature has a high degree of respect within the community. Effectively this legislation acknowledges that it is not the knife, nor the screwdriver, nor the icepick, nor the bunch of keys that is a danger, but the carriage of these implements in a public place without good and proveable reason. Under this legislation police are empowered to detain and search in situ persons who are reasonably suspected of being in possession of knives or other implements without good reason. However, since all this type of legislation is politically motivated, and since politicians need to continually prove that they are ever on guard to protect the public good, we are now in the position of waiting for the introduction of new legislation that could place a ban on the ownership of swords. That is ownership. Not carriage. Uncle Ben's bayonet from WWII that is used as a dibble stick could well become a prohibited weapon. This new legislation raised its ugly head perhaps two years ago as something that the then Minister of Police wished to see come out of an impartial, objective, routine review of the Prohibition of Weapons Act. I have been advised that the report of the review will be available within the very near future. This report will form the basis for amendments to legislation. We do not yet know what these amendments might be, but based upon what has already been introduced into some other states, they could involve licencing, very expensive safe keeping requirements, the keeping of auditable records, and a multitude of other obnoxious and totally ineffective requirements. Ineffective in the sense of providing an increased level of security for the community. Then of course there is the problem of defining exactly what a sword might be.Richard Burton could not do it. Here in the state of New South Wales, in Australia, those of us who have a vested interest in swords and other edged weapons are currently waiting with bated breath to see what new delights our law makers might have in store for us. Apart from those with a vested interest in swords, a number of gardeners, tradesmen, and housewives who are aware of the implications for them of an unwisely drafted piece of legislation, are also very interested to see exactly how much wisdom our elected representatives might have in this matter.

28th June 2006, 02:55 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	There is something to be said in favor of living in "The States" . I keep my Moro swords in a glass topped 3 drawer collector's table ; one night we had a cop in the house about some strange phone calls we were getting , he sat down on our couch to fill out his report ;when he saw the krisses he simply chuckled and quipped " what's this ; in case of emergency break glass ?" I also think about the movie Network ; a savage commentary on American television . I think this quote from the script fits ; maybe some of you will remember it : " I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. Howard Beale: [shouting] You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, Goddamnit! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, [shouting] Howard Beale: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: Howard Beale: [screaming at the top of his lungs] "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

28th June 2006, 05:35 AM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Oh, yes. We can be prisoners of our own complacency. When the news is showbusiness, and a comedy show is the most reliable news source, the signs are there. We have freedoms, in theory, but by not understanding them and, more importantly, not exercising them, they can become meaningless. Not lost, but just as bad. They become words on a piece of paper that no one reads. You don't have to be violent about exercising your rights, just firm, just certain, and hopefully informed. You have to care about it, see it as more than a morning "wasted" in line at the local voting station. So there is my political rant. Just my opinion, of course. Now, where did I put that remote .... ?

28th June 2006, 05:54 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes Mark, we should defend our rights. In the USA you do indeed have rights to defend. In Australia we have no constitutional rights as you do, and the old Bill of Rights has long been superceded by legislation. Many of the things that people in USA regard as God given rights are in Australia regarded as privileges. Successive governments of both major political persuasions at both federal and state levels have methodically chipped away at freedoms that we thought we had. The current government of this country , which is a hardline conservative government, has recently introduced industrial relations legislation that will eventually see the employer/employee relationship put back to the late 19th century. One does not have to be particularly brilliant to understand the principle reason behind the anti-weapons legislation and the relentless social engineering designed to turn the Australia population into sheep. I am now 65 years of age, and in quite comfortable circumstances. Were I younger, or in any sort of volatile employment situation, I would probably give very serious consideration to migrating to another country. The Australia of 2006 is not the country that my forebears fought for in two world wars, nor is it the country that I grew up in.It is nothing even remotely similar to the country presented in movies.