An important keris Kamardikan for our records

Gustav · 11th June 2023, 09:11 AM

Alan, I completely agree, without Dietrich Drescher Ki Yoso and Ki Djeno wouldn't start to make Keris again.

I very well am aware of the meaning of the name Yosocurigo. With family lineage I meant the lineage of Empu family.

I am not sure this name was given by Kraton Jogja. There is a misconception Supowinangun was Empu of Kraton - he wasn't, he was Empu of Kepatihan and his sons were Empu by family descent. I know of no rank given to Yoso by Kraton.

We all know Pak Jimmy very well.

The American - was he sporadically contributing to this Forum a time ago?

A. G. Maisey · 11th June 2023, 09:45 AM

With the Yoso name, its as I said, he could have got it from anywhere, but it is not a family name, it is a professional name.

I seem to recall there was a split between Djeno's father & the kraton, & Djeno's "empu" designation was a popular one not from HB. I forget all the details of this, probably knew it once, but I've just about used up all the keris space available in my head. I guess a hereditary title makes sense in some sort of way, can't say I've heard of this, but I suppose it could happen.

My understanding of the "empu" or "mpu" designation is that it is an honorific of respect given by a ruler to a notable person, usually an armourer or a literary person. In the old days its use was more widespread and was just an honorific used for anybody notable for whatever reason.

However, it was/is possible for somebody to acquire the designation "empu" by popular acclaim. For example Pauzan Pusposukadgo was always referred to as empu, but although he was a part of the Surakarta hierarchy he would not accept the designation of "empu" from the kraton, his understanding of an empu was that an empu was able to bring life into a keris, and his strong religious faith made the very idea of this abhorrent.

Pauzan's preferred designation was "Pande Seni Keris".

We all might know "Pak Jimmy", but I'm afraid I cannot place the name, I might know him by some other name, but again, its as I said:- if he has written & published about keris I've probably read his writings.

The American gentleman to whom I referred has never --- to the best of my knowledge --- taken part in any online discussion of any kind, I regard him & his wife as good friends, but he keeps himself to himself.

Gustav · 11th June 2023, 04:32 PM

Alan, I failed to express myself again, but the matter isn't of so big importance.

I understand now whom you do mean, thank you.

11th June 2023, 04:32 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Alan, I failed to express myself again, but the matter isn't of so big importance. I understand now whom you do mean, thank you. Last edited by Gustav; 11th June 2023 at 06:09 PM.

11th June 2023, 09:11 AM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Alan, I completely agree, without Dietrich Drescher Ki Yoso and Ki Djeno wouldn't start to make Keris again. I very well am aware of the meaning of the name Yosocurigo. With family lineage I meant the lineage of Empu family. I am not sure this name was given by Kraton Jogja. There is a misconception Supowinangun was Empu of Kraton - he wasn't, he was Empu of Kepatihan and his sons were Empu by family descent. I know of no rank given to Yoso by Kraton. We all know Pak Jimmy very well. The American - was he sporadically contributing to this Forum a time ago?

11th June 2023, 09:45 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	With the Yoso name, its as I said, he could have got it from anywhere, but it is not a family name, it is a professional name. I seem to recall there was a split between Djeno's father & the kraton, & Djeno's "empu" designation was a popular one not from HB. I forget all the details of this, probably knew it once, but I've just about used up all the keris space available in my head. I guess a hereditary title makes sense in some sort of way, can't say I've heard of this, but I suppose it could happen. My understanding of the "empu" or "mpu" designation is that it is an honorific of respect given by a ruler to a notable person, usually an armourer or a literary person. In the old days its use was more widespread and was just an honorific used for anybody notable for whatever reason. However, it was/is possible for somebody to acquire the designation "empu" by popular acclaim. For example Pauzan Pusposukadgo was always referred to as empu, but although he was a part of the Surakarta hierarchy he would not accept the designation of "empu" from the kraton, his understanding of an empu was that an empu was able to bring life into a keris, and his strong religious faith made the very idea of this abhorrent. Pauzan's preferred designation was "Pande Seni Keris". We all might know "Pak Jimmy", but I'm afraid I cannot place the name, I might know him by some other name, but again, its as I said:- if he has written & published about keris I've probably read his writings. The American gentleman to whom I referred has never --- to the best of my knowledge --- taken part in any online discussion of any kind, I regard him & his wife as good friends, but he keeps himself to himself.