Use of Actual Vintage Arms as Props in Early Films

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Hi All

Spurred on by this thread I purchased over the weekend the following pistol marked Bapty on the barrel

Bapty & Co was established by Mark Dinely in 1919 to produce firearms for film and television.

The pistol was sold as a reproduction but it is actually a genuine Turkish/Caucuses flintlock in good enough condition, The BAPTY mark is on top of the Barrel put there by electro pen and BAP is stamped on beside the trigger also. There is silver wire work alson with silver escutcheon and my friend informs me the mechanism is working.

A mate of mine picked up the gun and I am meeting him this week.

The same company is still going strong and they made the Stormtroopers guns in the original Star Wars and also the guns used by the Marines in Alien 2.

Thanks Jim, I would have ignored the auction listing except for this thread.

Regards,

Ken

picture from auction listing is all I have for moment

Cool. I wonder if it is Turkish proof marked & might fire a blank charge at least...

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for this entry Ken! How exciting to see this outcome, which is a perfect illustration of the existence of actual weaponry which became clouded by presence among weaponry used by studios for films. As Ian has noted earlier, often standard military weapons were altered to simulate the types of weapons of the period and setting.

It is interesting that as films relied heavily on action scenes, especially with the silent films, dramatically exaggerated and intense action often resulted in a degree of accidental injury to the actors. Often actual fencing sabers of the time were used as they were lighter and 'faster' to accommodate such movement.

GP, Hooray for your daughter!!!!! I am totally with you, when I was a 'young lad' too.....in '56 when the first Zorro series with Walt Disney's productions began, and this was what set me on a lifelong odyssey with swords.
When I finally took fencing my dad scoffed, 'great Jim, something you can always use!

[Jim McDougall]

In current research and concerning early films, in particular the black & white of course, the actors were typically heavily made up so their expressions were visible to accentuate the drama in sequences.

I discovered it was not just the actors who were 'painted' but also furniture, props etc............and for our purposes here.....WEAPONS!

Over the years, on occasion many old weapons coming up for sale had been painted many years before. I was of course always horrified by this, wondering what sort of fiend would do this to a wonderful old sword!?

Apparently, different colors would photograph differently in the old film and lighting, and it was necessary to use varied colors to achieve harmony in the setting, otherwise it would be a virtual kaleidoscope of imagery.
They actually had coded paint colors to be used in certain situations or in alignment with other colors in object groupings.

So it would seem very likely that these garishly painted old weapons may well have been used in early films as props.

[werecow]

Not exactly an "early" film, but... Interesting wizard staff design you got there, Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power...

[Jim McDougall]

Just found out that the walls of the Addams family house in the TV series were PINK!!! theres a Halloween tidbit.

[werecow]

Again, not an early film, but was watching Dune: Prophecy, and, well...



I think there's at least one ethnographic arms expert on staff in Hollywood doing the rounds in the SF and Fantasy circuit. Which one of you is it?

EDIT: Argh. I don't know why this forum keeps flipping my pictures. But you know what it is.

[David R]

I did some filming for Disney back in the 1980's when they were setting up a "ride" for Disney World Paris. Interesting experience, and during preparation they were issuing some actors with original and genuine Ottoman armour!

Similarly when working for the BBC on the series "Soldiers" they dressed the battlefield with some original French Cuirasses. In both cases these had come from UK based Props/costume companies, and you could see multiple stick on labels from the previous hundred years or so.

Never got any pics at the time as it was pre phone-camera times, but here's some shots from the BBC production. Dunno who took them, but shared by my old reenactment group to Fb. Btw, I'm the French Sergeant in these shots. Great Days!

[adamb]

On this note, and hi all, has anyone ever come across a weapon with “Clayton Co, M” inscribed/written on it, as per the inscription in blank ink on the sheath of this old Moro Kris?

Originally Posted by kronckew

Cool. I wonder if it is Turkish proof marked & might fire a blank charge at least...

[werecow]

Not really "early" again but... The movie Tornado (2025) takes place in the 1790s but appears to feature a WWII shin gunto.